Get him gone.

[DCFC Kicks]

27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Only a Carabao Cup and Europe! ?

Spurs were highly unlikely to win the League Cup anyway or qualify for the CL with Mourinho. It's reported that it would have cost more to sack Mourinho had he won the League Cup, and it's widely known Levy cares more about money than he does winning the League Cup.

Spurs planned to replace Mourinho with Mason before they sacked him and he knows he's only going to be there 10 games. That wasn't the case when we sacked Cocu. The Spurs hierarchy deemed it acceptable that there might be a chance they won't qualify for the CL or win the League Cup when they appointed Mason. I highly doubt the Derby hierarchy deemed it acceptable that there might be a chance we could get relegated when we appointed Rooney. Spurs not qualifying for the CL or winning the League Cup isn't the end of the world for them. Us getting relegated is the end of the world for us.

IT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

[Pearl Ram]

I don’t think our relegation will mean much to Tottenham at all you know. ? 

[BaaLocks]

15 minutes ago, GenBr said:

What are you trying to argue here? Lampard and McClaren both went onto bigger and better jobs entirely due to their performance with us. Rowett is one of the very few Derby managers in the entire history of the club to be poached by another team. You can't blame Derby for these three not making the most of the opportunities given to them - thats just ridiculous.

Pearson destroyed his own career, as did Clement. We didn't "poison" either of their careers.

What I am trying to argue is the point you make yourself in sentence three - very few Derby managers have gone on to have successful careers after leaving us. More so, though, I was trying to point out that this cycle of giving someone the job, then firing them less than a year later (on average) has got us three parts of nowhere. Leeds kept reloading, before they got lucky, but in general you have got no hope if you just keep firing the manager without taking time to consider why it all keeps going wrong. Hey, who knows, maybe it's not just the manager at fault here? Our iceberg is MELting for more reasons that Wayne, or any manager, can be expected to cope with.

[Jimbo Ram]

14 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

But other than for those factors he could have built the squad in January into one that was preparing for a tilt at promotion next season. You, and I, simply don't know if that might have been the case.

Your logic on Wayne having to somehow take responsibility is seriously flawed. For what aim? To 'tar and feather' him and parade him down the Cornmarket as a pariah of the city? That won't keep us in the Championship and probably won't make you feel any better either. But other than just having a victim to blame I see no benefit what so ever in firing Wayne now, as Simon Jordan said, we're better off seeing this through, getting the takeover done (wherever we end up) and giving him a chance to build us up again. Or, at the least, part ways in the summer. Do you even know if we have the funds to terminate his contract? Do you know how much that would be? Do you know if that would seriously impact the gearing associated to the takeover? I don't - if you do I'm all ears.

So, in conclusion, well done on 43 pages of 'angry of Mackworth' trying to rouse the hordes against one individual when, actually, this is a clusterfork of epidemic proportions that goes way back before Cocu, Zamora or Clement. It's been unravelling for best part of a decade and there really is only one person who is ultimately the common thread through it all, even if he is 'one of our own'.

?Are you for real. Did you seriously quote for everyone to see that a football manager should not take ultimate responsibility for performances and results on the pitch...hold on, I have read it again and you did ? And you call my views flawed ?All, I repeat, ALL football managers are judged on results. They are paid an awful lot of money, like Wazza is, to get results. That’s why the vast majority of managers who have won one in thirteen games like Wazza get the call in to the office to be relieved of their duties. A lot of them will feel they have been hard done by, hit by injuries, no money to spend etc etc but that makes no difference. The delay in the takeover and our dire financial situation has kept him in his job this long. The managers at Luton and Coventry all have the same issues to deal with, have probably weaker squads than Wazza has even with the injuries, but have managed to get their players performing better, that is the reality. Rooney, the novice, being recruited as Manager was a stupid gamble that a lot of us thought was ludicrous at the time and we have been proven to be right. But your post did make me smile ? 

[Chris_Martin]

46 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Both of whom got fired and then (to date) never got anywhere near those levels again. If you think Derby propelled Schteve to a glorious career in football management then you might want to take a look where he is today.......

yeah but your point was we poison managers careers. Both Mac & Frank went on to premier league jobs after us. 

[Chris_Martin]

36 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

Spurs aren't battling to stay in there division, Spurs don't really have anything left to play for this season, Mason's only going to be there for about 10 games, It's a completely different situation. 

 

Can you imagine if Spurs were in a relegation battle though, and they hired a complete rookie like Mason as their manager to try and get them out of it. Who on earth would be stupid enough to do something like that?

[Jimbo Ram]

3 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

 

Can you imagine if Spurs were in a relegation battle though, and they hired a complete rookie like Mason as their manager to try and get them out of it. Who on earth would be stupid enough to do something like that?

He wouldn’t have to take responsibility for results though and would stay in his job....wouldn’t he ?

[nottingram]

15 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

 

Can you imagine if Spurs were in a relegation battle though, and they hired a complete rookie like Mason as their manager to try and get them out of it. Who on earth would be stupid enough to do something like that?

While they then appointed Pochettino as a link between the current and prospective owners.

[SSD]

I feel bad for Rooney in the sense of behind the scenes, the club is in a mess. When the team were desperate need for reinforcements, we went for loan players and to their credit they've been okay. But we didn't need okay, we needed some quality and when the club's finances are on a shoe string, what options does the manager have? 

This squad is middle of road. Not terrible but not going to be challenge for the top of the division. We should be higher up the league regardless of what is going on at the club. We've got international players with potential to have top flight careers and I don't think the management team have any idea how to play to their strengths, particularly going forward. I completely disagree with Eric Steele who keeps saying Rooney is getting everything out of this squad. The manager is out of his depth, which is not anattack on his amazing footballing career. As a manager, it was a case of sink or swim and his arrogance believing the team would definitely be safe has bit him on the rear end. 

I think we'll end up staying in the league by pure luck, the three below are dreadful and Wednesday's points deduction has been a huge help. Rooney has given me no confidence at all he can be a success long term as our manager by the horrible run of form in the last third of the season. He doesn't deserve more time if the takeover happens, I want to see big change across the club.

[BaaLocks]

6 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Yes the issues run much deeper than the manager, but you are not telling me we are not underperforming? 

This starting XI is not considerably different to the one that had play off form for the second half of last season. Wisdom, Clarke, Forsyth, Shinnie, Bird, Sibley/Knight, Lawrence, Waghorn were all regulars last season. The squad isn’t great but it is a lazy excuse to say it is rubbish and for some (not necessarily you) it wasn’t an excuse granted to the previous manager. Rotherham, Wycombe, Luton would kill to have some of the players that we do. 

So no, Rooney isn’t the only problem at the club, but he is one of them and he is causing more problems with each passing week. I don’t think anyone thinks everything will be solved by sacking the manager, but by not sacking the manager we are actively choosing to increase the chances of us being relegated. That makes the rest of the problems at the club much, much harder to solve. We have someone sat in some weird role who has literally been a successful manager both at this club and elsewhere, but particularly at this club. Tell me it isn’t complete and utter lunacy that we have our most successful manager of the last decade sat as an advisor to the board while we have someone who has never managed, being assisted by three coaches who have never managed, presiding over a run of 1 win in nearly a third of the season, seemingly completely untouchable? Let’s not forget he only got the job after his ‘performances’ contributed to the last manager getting sacked.

I agree with all but the last sentence of that - fwiw. Oh, and the point about getting a new manager in to avoid relegation - we have two games to go. It's just not going to happen.

[BaaLocks]

40 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

yeah but your point was we poison managers careers. Both Mac & Frank went on to premier league jobs after us. 

And where are they today? 17:19pm on a Monday? Not in management so maybe so. But, to be clear, my point was not so much where managers go when they leave but that we have an almost unblemished record of firing managers, who then pretty much always, don't go on to bigger and better things. 

By your logic the 2009 team was a good one because Matt Oakley went on to captain Leicester.

[Chris_Martin]

6 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

And where are they today? 17:19pm on a Monday? Not in management so maybe so. But, to be clear, my point was not so much where managers go when they leave but that we have an almost unblemished record of firing managers, who then pretty much always, don't go on to bigger and better things. 

By your logic the 2009 team was a good one because Matt Oakley went on to captain Leicester.

irrelevant. that wasn't your question.

Don't understand your point about Oakley either.

[BaaLocks]

52 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Did you seriously quote for everyone to see that a football manager should not take ultimate responsibility for performances NO, I DIDN'T and results on the pitch...hold on, I have read it again and you did NOPE, I DIDN'T

Last reply on this, for the good of all the other forum readers who would probably rather go watch a ferris wheel if they wanted to see someone go round and round in circles.

What I said was your view that Rooney should take ultimate responsibilty, two games from the end of the season, is flawed - a bit like your ability to comprehend a sentence. But let's leave it there because you obviously seem to understand not only everything that is going on at Derby but also everything that should be done and everything that should have been done.

I can see your frustration that you were not consulted - it seems to be a bit of a MELodrama for you. I do hope when you do get consulted on the next appointment, hold on is that your phone ringing?, it brings a more MELodious result for you and detracts and MELancholy you may be feeling. After that call I am sure you will be a little more MELlow, even if you will still think I am a bit of a MELon.

[BaaLocks]

2 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

irrelevant. that wasn't your question.

Don't understand your point about Oakley either.

No, it wasn't - what I said was that we have a history of sacking managers.

[nottingram]

6 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I agree with all but the last sentence of that - fwiw. Oh, and the point about getting a new manager in to avoid relegation - we have two games to go. It's just not going to happen.

We realistically need one win to avoid relegation, which has been the case for at least the previous three games. So it isn’t needing one win from two to stay up, more that we needed one win from five or six (granted, this is with the benefit of hindsight although Rotherham’s run of fixtures could have led to us predicting it would go something like it has). 

We have someone already on the payroll who is far more likely to make that happen than the person who is actually tasked with making it happen. We could have done something about it, we haven’t, and we have loaded the pressure on ourselves as a result, and now it probably is too late to really do anything.

Just think it’s too easy to say we spend too much time and money hiring and firing managers. We’ve fired one manager in three years and even then he was given a good bit of time. In my opinion the consequences of keeping Rooney will be far wider reaching than changing manager. 

Feels like one of those situations where he will be sacked if we go down (and probably if we stay up, too). Makes no sense. Why wait until the consequence we should be trying to avoid has already happened to make a change that could have stopped the consequence we should be trying to avoid actually happening?

[May Contain Nuts]

33 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said:

This squad is middle of road. Not terrible but not going to be challenge for the top of the division. We should be higher up the league regardless of what is going on at the club. We've got international players with potential to have top flight careers and I don't think the management team have any idea how to play to their strengths, particularly going forward. I completely disagree with Eric Steele who keeps saying Rooney is getting everything out of this squad.

I'd put it below middle of the road especially with the current injuries, but not bottom 4.

CKR, Waghorn, Lawrence, Sibley, Knight, Roberts, Jozwiak, Byrne & Buchanan really should have more than 18 goals & 15 assists between them if set up correctly.

(10 goals and 13 assists if you exclude CKR)

Just turning a couple of single goal defeats into draws, or one draw into a victory by getting 2 more goals out of them as a collective shouldn't be seen as some herculean task, and we'd all feel a lot more relaxed even with just one or two extra points on the board.

[BaaLocks]

4 minutes ago, nottingram said:

We realistically need one win to avoid relegation, which has been the case for at least the previous three games. So it isn’t needing one win from two to stay up, more that we needed one win from five or six (granted, this is with the benefit of hindsight although Rotherham’s run of fixtures could have led to us predicting it would go something like it has). 

We have someone already on the payroll who is far more likely to make that happen than the person who is actually tasked with making it happen. We could have done something about it, we haven’t, and we have loaded the pressure on ourselves as a result, and now it probably is too late to really do anything.

Just think it’s too easy to say we spend too much time and money hiring and firing managers. We’ve fired one manager in three years and even then he was given a good bit of time. In my opinion the consequences of keeping Rooney will be far wider reaching than changing manager. 

Feels like one of those situations where he will be sacked if we go down (and probably if we stay up, too). Makes no sense. Why wait until the consequence we should be trying to avoid has already happened to make a change that could have stopped the consequence we should be trying to avoid actually happening?

So your suggestion is that we fire Rooney, pay up his contract, and give the team to Mac (who we're not even sure is on the payroll) for the last two games. Is that it? Are you sure we have the funds to do that, even if you want to? His contract runs to 2023 so that's probably a number with six zeroes.

[DCFC Kicks]

13 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

So your suggestion is that we fire Rooney, pay up his contract, and give the team to Mac (who we're not even sure is on the payroll) for the last two games. Is that it? Are you sure we have the funds to do that, even if you want to? His contract runs to 2023 so that's probably a number with six zeroes.

Did him becoming manager end his playing contract? and was his playing contract costing us more than his now manager contact? Maybe that's part of why we hired him or why Mel decided to hire him while still being owner.

Rooney's getting sacked at the end of the season anyway, so someone's going to have to pay him off, no one wants to be that person though.

Also the most ludicrous thing is, the reason he's on a 2 year deal is because BZI wanted it. 

[nottingram]

5 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

So your suggestion is that we fire Rooney, pay up his contract, and give the team to Mac (who we're not even sure is on the payroll) for the last two games. Is that it? Are you sure we have the funds to do that, even if you want to? His contract runs to 2023 so that's probably a number with six zeroes.

Well firstly I’ll make the assumption that McClaren isn’t working for us pro bono which I think is a safe assumption.

My suggestion is therefore that as we are paying them all anyway we pay messrs Rooney and Rosenior to tend their own gardens, for the time being, at an extra cost of £0. We then ask Mr. McClaren, assisted by Mr. Wassall to temporarily take charge of first team affairs to the end of the season, at an extra cost of £0. Hopefully they keep us up, this might allow us to use the difference between prospective Championship income and prospective League One income to come to a more permanent arrangement whereby Mr. Rooney can remain at home in Cheshire while we hire a proper manager, like we should’ve done in November. If we go down, so be it. We were going down anyway and I refuse to believe he will be kept on if we do go down. So nothing lost.

I agree it may well be too late to do anything to arrest the slide now, but it wasn’t too late even 10 days ago. 

[Jimbo Ram]

Just now, nottingram said:

Well firstly I’ll make the assumption that McClaren isn’t working for us pro bono which I think is a safe assumption.

My suggestion is therefore that as we are paying them all anyway we pay messrs Rooney and Rosenior to tend their own gardens, for the time being, at an extra cost of £0. We then ask Mr. McClaren, assisted by Mr. Wassall to temporarily take charge of first team affairs to the end of the season, at an extra cost of £0. Hopefully they keep us up, this might allow us to use the difference between prospective Championship income and prospective League One income to come to a more permanent arrangement whereby Mr. Rooney can remain at home in Cheshire while we hire a proper manager, like we should’ve done in November. If we go down, so be it. We were going down anyway and I refuse to believe he will be kept on if we do go down. So nothing lost.

I agree it may well be too late to do anything to arrest the slide now, but it wasn’t too late even 10 days ago. 

Might confuse the players though, Mac talking about offensive attacking football and nonsense about aiming to score more goals than them....