The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[therealhantsram]

1 minute ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

Austria going into a full lockdown, It seems just locking away the unvaxed isn’t enough. Shock.

More than that. They are introducing MANDATORY vaccinations.  This from the Telegraph:

"Vaccination will also become compulsory from Feb. 1, he added.  Those who refuse could face heavy fines.

There is a large anti-vaxxer movement and only 65 per cent of Austrians are fully jabbed. There are fears Friday’s announcement could spark angry protests."

Quite something for a democratic western country.

[maxjam]

1 minute ago, therealhantsram said:

More than that. They are introducing MANDATORY vaccinations.  This from the Telegraph:

"Vaccination will also become compulsory from Feb. 1, he added.  Those who refuse could face heavy fines.

There is a large anti-vaxxer movement and only 65 per cent of Austrians are fully jabbed. There are fears Friday’s announcement could spark angry protests."

So the Government can mandate what you have put into your body now. 

I don't fear it could spark angry protest, I expect it.

[therealhantsram]

2 minutes ago, maxjam said:

So the Government can mandate what you have put into your body now. 

Yep. And they do already when its considered in our best interests. In this country for instance they currently require manufacturers put certain additives in bread and breakfast cereals.

There used to be a law in this country that enforced mandatory vaccination for smallpox. That law was repealed in the 1960s after smallpox was wiped out.  

That said, to my knowledge, there is no equivalent of this mandatory vaccination step in modern times. Other countries will be watching closely to see how this goes.

 

[Gaspode]

There's no need to prescribe a mandatory vacine - if they're offered the vacine and refuse, they have to sign a waiver stating that they don't expect the health service to step in in the event that they contract covid. Take the safety net away from the principled deniers and see how many change their minds.....

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

12 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

There's no need to prescribe a mandatory vacine - if they're offered the vacine and refuse, they have to sign a waiver stating that they don't expect the health service to step in in the event that they contract covid. Take the safety net away from the principled deniers and see how many change their minds.....

You mean deny them of a service they may well have contributed to for decades? Do be serious. 

[Anon]

22 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

There's no need to prescribe a mandatory vacine - if they're offered the vacine and refuse, they have to sign a waiver stating that they don't expect the health service to step in in the event that they contract covid. Take the safety net away from the principled deniers and see how many change their minds.....

As long as it's only for covid that would be fine by me. Although, given some of things they've been attributing as covid on death certificates, I'm not so sure. I'd probably find myself getting denied treatment after being hit by a bus because the broken bones were almost certainly caused by covid.

[Gaspode]

Just now, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

You mean deny them of a service they may well have contributed to for decades? Do be serious. 

So it's o.k. to refuse the vacine and thereby put the health service under additional undue pressure (potentially killing other people or delaying urgent treatment)?  If you don't want the vaccine, fine - but why should other people suffer because you've made that choice? I'm sure that the many anti-vax posters on here would be happy to refuse NHS treatment if they catch Covid - surely better than being called out as hypocrites.....

As for "a service they may well have contributed to for decades" - I think you need a better understanding of how taxation works - whatever people pay in is used there and then to provide services, not kept in some mythical pot for when they need it at a later time in their lives - it's unfair, but the alternative would be far worse as the poorest in society couldn't get treatment because they'd not paid enough in......

[Anon]

I wouldn't just stop at people who'd refused the vaccination being denied treatment for covid. The NHS is under extreme pressure and I think we should all be more responsible. To that end I'd also like to see smokers being denied treatment for lung cancer, the obese being denied heart treatments, heavy drinkers being denied liver treatment etc...

[maxjam]

24 minutes ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

You mean deny them of a service they may well have contributed to for decades? Do be serious. 

Exactly.

Why should I pay for someone thats stuffs themselves full of food or drink?  And why should I pay for smokers or someone that doesn't get a flu jab?

If we have an NHS its there for all, otherwise we should all pay private health insurance and pay a premium for whatever we decide to put in our bodies or not.

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

10 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

So it's o.k. to refuse the vacine and thereby put the health service under additional undue pressure (potentially killing other people or delaying urgent treatment)?  If you don't want the vaccine, fine - but why should other people suffer because you've made that choice? I'm sure that the many anti-vax posters on here would be happy to refuse NHS treatment if they catch Covid - surely better than being called out as hypocrites.....

As for "a service they may well have contributed to for decades" - I think you need a better understanding of how taxation works - whatever people pay in is used there and then to provide services, not kept in some mythical pot for when they need it at a later time in their lives - it's unfair, but the alternative would be far worse as the poorest in society couldn't get treatment because they'd not paid enough in......

Not every unvaccinated person needs hospital treatment so it’s not a binary choice of either taking the jab or clogging up the health service. Remember a time before the vaccine where there was a 98% survival rate? Just as not every unvaccinated person is carrying the virus and waiting round the corner to jump out on you. From the posts I’ve read on here I don’t think anybody is an actual anti-vaxer, unless you go by this new watered down version where anybody who shows any hesitancy or questions this new vaccine is an anti-vaxxer.

Thanks for taking the time to explain how taxation works ?. We all pay NIC’s and that allows us to use certain services, some may not use the NHS for years, some more regularly than they would like, luckily it’s a level playing field for all. One of the highest risk factors for getting seriously Ill with Covid whether vaccinated or unvaccinated is obesity, should we also start denying them medical attention because they’ve made a different lifestyle choice or does that not fit the narrative? 

[maxjam]

20 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

So it's o.k. to refuse the vacine and thereby put the health service under additional undue pressure (potentially killing other people or delaying urgent treatment)?  If you don't want the vaccine, fine - but why should other people suffer because you've made that choice? I'm sure that the many anti-vax posters on here would be happy to refuse NHS treatment if they catch Covid - surely better than being called out as hypocrites.....

So its okay to smoke, drink or eat yourself into an early grave thereby putting the health service under additional undue pressure (potentially killing other people or delaying urgent treatment)?  If you want to drink, smoke or stuff your face, fine - but why should other people suffer because you've made that choice? I'm sure that the many that smoke, drink or eat to much would be happy to refuse NHS treatment - surely better than being called out as hypocrites.....

[Gaspode]

3 minutes ago, Anon said:

I wouldn't just stop at people who'd refused the vaccination being denied treatment for covid. The NHS is under extreme pressure and I think we should all be more responsible. To that end I'd also like to see smokers being denied treatment for lung cancer, the obese being denied heart treatments, heavy drinkers being denied liver treatment etc...

There's is actually an argument for all of those - but you'd probably need to give people 20+ years notice that you were likely to withdraw treatment for (mainly) self-inflicted conditions so they could change their lifestyle, whereas choosing to take a vaccine or not is a pretty immediate decision.....

Anyway I'm not actually suggesting the health service should withdraw treatment, but I wonder how many people who are so anti-vax would change their minds if the safety net wasn't there?

[Mostyn6]

@Gaspodeyou sound like you could be a fan of Josef Mengele? He used to force experimental drugs into people too.
 

ALL Covid vaccines are experimental. 

[maxjam]

16 minutes ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

Not every unvaccinated person needs hospital treatment so it’s not a binary choice of either taking the jab or clogging up the health service.

The hospital admission rate of COVID-19-confirmed patients in England decreased to 7.44 per 100,000

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals

Total covid admissions in 2 years is under 600k

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

Meanwhile...

One million obesity linked admissions 2019/20

https://digital.nhs.uk/news/2021/one-million-admissions-linked-to-obesity-in-2019-20-new-data-reveals

In 2000/01 there were approximately 1.28 million adults admitted to hospital in England due to an illness caused by smoking. By 2019/20 the number of hospital admissions as a result of smoking had increased to approximately 1.99 million, the largest number during the provided time period.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/370292/hospital-admissions-caused-by-smoking-in-england-uk/#:~:text=In 2000%2F01 there were,during the provided time period.

In 2018/19 there were 358k estimated admissions where the main reason for admission to hospital was attributable to alcohol

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/statistics-on-alcohol/2020/part-1

Edited November 19, 2021 by maxjam

[Gaspode]

5 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

@Gaspodeyou sound like you could be a fan of Josef Mengele? He used to force experimental drugs into people too.
 

ALL Covid vaccines are experimental. 

I don't agree with forced vaccinations, but I think people should have the strength of their convictions if they won't have the vaccine....

Unfortunately you sound like one of the many that won't take the vaccine, safe in the knowledge that the NHS will look after you should you catch the virus....there's a word for that, but I'm sure you already know that....

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

10 minutes ago, maxjam said:

The hospital admission rate of COVID-19-confirmed patients in England decreased to 7.44 per 100,000

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals

Toal covid admissions in 2 years is under 600k

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

Meanwhile...

One million obesity linked admissions 2019/20

https://digital.nhs.uk/news/2021/one-million-admissions-linked-to-obesity-in-2019-20-new-data-reveals

In 2000/01 there were approximately 1.28 million adults admitted to hospital in England due to an illness caused by smoking. By 2019/20 the number of hospital admissions as a result of smoking had increased to approximately 1.99 million, the largest number during the provided time period.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/370292/hospital-admissions-caused-by-smoking-in-england-uk/#:~:text=In 2000%2F01 there were,during the provided time period.

In 2018/19 there were 358 thousand estimated admissions where the main reason for admission to hospital was attributable to alcohol

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/statistics-on-alcohol/2020/part-1

These numbers are staggering. I’m sure @Gaspodewill be now advocating banning these people from the NHS. Unless he’s an overweight, chain smoking alcoholic of course.

[Mostyn6]

16 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

I don't agree with forced vaccinations, but I think people should have the strength of their convictions if they won't have the vaccine....

Unfortunately you sound like one of the many that won't take the vaccine, safe in the knowledge that the NHS will look after you should you catch the virus....there's a word for that, but I'm sure you already know that....

Wrong. I had two doses. 

[Gaspode]

6 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Wrong. I had two doses. 

Of the vaccine? ?

[Gaspode]

24 minutes ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

These numbers are staggering. I’m sure @Gaspodewill be now advocating banning these people from the NHS. Unless he’s an overweight, chain smoking alcoholic of course.

As @Mostyn6 has already acused me of being a Nazi sympathiser (not offensive in the slightest), I'd probably suggest they should be rounded up and shot.....

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

5 hours ago, Gaspode said:

As @Mostyn6 has already acused me of being a Nazi sympathiser (not offensive in the slightest), I'd probably suggest they should be rounded up and shot.....

Knew it.