The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[GboroRam]

2 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Thats simply not true though, especially for the vast numbers of healthcare workers whose average age is 44.

You know perfectly well the goal isn't to reduce the risks for healthcare workers though, don't you?

[Gone]

7 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Thats simply not true though, especially for the vast numbers of healthcare workers whose average age is 44.

According to this data from March 2020 the healthcare sector had over 112000 job vacancies

https://www.skillsforcare.org.uk/adult-social-care-workforce-data/Workforce-intelligence/publications/national-information/The-state-of-the-adult-social-care-sector-and-workforce-in-England.aspx

which will inevitably increase putting lives at danger if healthcare workers still refuse to be vaccinated;

https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2021/covid-19-vaccine-refusal-higher-among-health-and-social-care-workers-who-feel

I picked this graph from May 2020 - long before we had any vaccines which shows the breakdown in covid related deaths by age - if you're under 50, like most healthcare staff, especially female staff, the risk to you is negligible.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/discover/2020/06/coronavirus-risk-for-older-people-updated/

Come on @maxjam you know the rules, don’t let sound data get in the way of the ever changing narrative. 

[maxjam]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

You know perfectly well the goal isn't to reduce the risks for healthcare workers though, don't you?

Yes but from the healthcare workers perspective; 

- their risk wasn't that high to begin with

- for whatever reason a lot of healthcare workers aren't getting jabbed

- forcing them to get jabbed my result in considerably more than the 112000 vacancies than they had last March

- back in February the vaccine take up in the over 75s, the people they are most likely to care for, was over 90%

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/08/more-than-90-percent-over-75s-uk-first-covid-jab

 

[GboroRam]

2 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Yes but from the healthcare workers perspective; 

- their risk wasn't that high to begin with

- for whatever reason a lot of healthcare workers aren't getting jabbed

- forcing them to get jabbed my result in considerably more than the 112000 vacancies than they had last March

- back in February the vaccine take up in the over 75s, the people they are most likely to care for, was over 90%

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/08/more-than-90-percent-over-75s-uk-first-covid-jab

 

All negatives, and nobody is saying that there are no negatives.

The positive, less chance of outbreaks being caused by unvaccinated healthcare staff bringing the disease to a centre for vulnerable people. 

I'm not saying it's not concerning - it is. But I certainly see the reasoning behind it. It depends if you put personal liberty ahead of the safety of the wider population. I personally don't, and from a risk balancing perspective I feel comfortable that a vaccination programme in healthcare settings is the lower risk option.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, jimmyp said:

No. Try google perhaps. 
 

Sad though isn’t it when 31 year old professional athletes are being hospitalised by Covid. I hope he gets better soon. 

Yes me too , thought the same when the Denmark lad was hospitalised 

[maxjam]

2 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

All negatives, and nobody is saying that there are no negatives.

The positive, less chance of outbreaks being caused by unvaccinated healthcare staff bringing the disease to a centre for vulnerable people. 

I'm not saying it's not concerning - it is. But I certainly see the reasoning behind it. It depends if you put personal liberty ahead of the safety of the wider population. I personally don't, and from a risk balancing perspective I feel comfortable that a vaccination programme in healthcare settings is the lower risk option.

I don't disagree with you in a lot of ways, certainly not the bit I've highlighted and tbh don't think that careworkers are anti-vax etc as they already have to have a number of jabs to work in the sector anyway iirc.

However, if we put the mandatory vaccine/health passport creep to one side (which as I don't know anyone that works in healthcare I'm far more concerned about anyway tbh) and just focus on healthcare workers I can understand why a lot of them, especially the younger ones don't want to get the jab - long term its unproven, their individual risk is tiny and almost everyone they have to care for will have been vaccinated anyway. 

The Govt making the vaccine mandatory could be a double edged sword that costs even more lives.

[Stive Pesley]

Isn't it also to do with the isolation rules changing for the vaccinated?

As an example - Brown bins collections across Derby have been cancelled for the next 3 days because all the refuse workers in those teams have had to isolate. We had the same problem with Posties earlier in the year

I don't think there is many would argue that healthcare is one sector where we really need to avoid departments shutting down altogether because of outbreaks and enforced isolation

 

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, jimmyp said:

No. Try google perhaps. 
 

Sad though isn’t it when 31 year old professional athletes are being hospitalised by Covid. I hope he gets better soon. 

Athletes or a athlete?

[jimmyp]

18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Athletes or a athlete?

Yeah my poor grammar. Thanks for pointing out. ??

[Pearl Ram]

5 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

Yeah my poor grammar. Thanks for pointing out. ??

Missed a trick there Jimmy, I would have got a lot of pleasure out of pointing out to someone as pedantic as that, it should have been an athlete. ?

[Wolfie]

Interesting update on the Covid app and likely changes.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57836325

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said:

Missed a trick there Jimmy, I would have got a lot of pleasure out of pointing out to someone as pedantic as that, it should have been an athlete. ?

Wasnt really pedantic, the story was there to try and sensationalise the fact that a 31 year old footballer has gone into hospital after contracting Covid.

At least I assume that was the intention as I have not seen links to stories of 31 year old athletes who have contracted Covid and had no ill effects.

[jimmyp]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Wasnt really pedantic, the story was there to try and sensationalise the fact that a 31 year old footballer has gone into hospital after contracting Covid.

At least I assume that was the intention as I have not seen links to stories of 31 year old athletes who have contracted Covid and had no ill effects.

To be honest g star it was a genuine mistake with my grammar. 

After you pointed out my mistake I thought about linking an article to another 31 year old athlete, and numerous other under thirty year old athletes who have been hospitalised with covid.

I didn’t though because it was simply  a poor grammar choice and not an attempt to sensationalise a story as you have assumed. 

 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Isn't it also to do with the isolation rules changing for the vaccinated?

As an example - Brown bins collections across Derby have been cancelled for the next 3 days because all the refuse workers in those teams have had to isolate. We had the same problem with Posties earlier in the year

I don't think there is many would argue that healthcare is one sector where we really need to avoid departments shutting down altogether because of outbreaks and enforced isolation

 

Perhaps the isolation rules need to be looked at as opposed to making those without the virus isolate rather than use massively over the top isolation rules as an excuse to mandate vaccine ??‍♂️,

Either the vaccines work or they don’t ,frontline care home workers is understandable (poss??‍♂️) going forward , saying you have to have the jab s to come into the sector to work can be sold , telling the very few that are in position ( don’t want the jab) and put their lives and safety and the lives / safety of their families at risk to care for OUR elderly through all this without vaccines and half the time proper ppe,thanks but you are out on your ear now you selfish selfish people is a bit unsavoury in my view ,

just heard an mp or high up ( caught the interview half way through ) on radio resorting in the end of a debate on masks resort to saying wearing one was the Christian thing to do ??‍♂️,

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Archied

[Archied]

21 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

To be honest g star it was a genuine mistake with my grammar. 

After you pointed out my mistake I thought about linking an article to another 31 year old athlete, and numerous other under thirty year old athletes who have been hospitalised with covid.

I didn’t though because it was simply  a poor grammar choice and not an attempt to sensationalise a story as you have assumed. 

 

Problem is there’s no balance ,, where’s the stories / coverage of the plus side that if you catch covid the chance of you dying or being very ill/ hospitalised are minuscule ??‍♂️, that’s the true picture even if you take the figures at face value ,

There comes a point where not being honest or rather using spin becomes counter productive and causes more damage

[jimmyp]

44 minutes ago, Archied said:

Problem is there’s no balance ,, where’s the stories / coverage of the plus side that if you catch covid the chance of you dying or being very ill/ hospitalised are minuscule ??‍♂️, that’s the true picture even if you take the figures at face value ,

There comes a point where not being honest or rather using spin becomes counter productive and causes more damage

Because we disagree on many things doesn’t mean there is no balance. 

The problem with covid is that the disruption it causes even when, as you put it, a minuscule amount of people are hospitalised, dying or very ill. That minuscule amount of people actually adds up to a very large and sometimes incomprehensible number of people. Not to mention the effect it has on those around them.

We really need to deal with covid as I don’t believe we are yet at the stage that we can learn to live with it. 

I really don’t have anything massively positive to say about Covid. It’s bad, very very bad. 
 

I agree that using spin or not being honest can cause lots of damage. Some of the false information on vaccines for example has held us back enormously. 
 

Edited July 14, 2021 by jimmyp

[Wolfie]

47 minutes ago, Archied said:

Problem is there’s no balance ,, where’s the stories / coverage of the plus side that if you catch covid the chance of you dying or being very ill/ hospitalised are minuscule ??‍♂️, that’s the true picture even if you take the figures at face value ,

There comes a point where not being honest or rather using spin becomes counter productive and causes more damage

I disagree about your assertion that there hasn't been coverage of the low risks. It's been talked about right from the start about which groups were more vulnerable and endless graphs of death rates per age/gender etc.

It forms the whole basis of why the vaccine roll out has been planned the way it was, with certain groups being prioritised - and also the entire background of the current argument about whether the risks of vaccinating the youngsters outweighs the risks of them catching it.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

Because we disagree on many things doesn’t mean there is no balance. 

The problem with covid is that the disruption it causes even when, as you put it, a minuscule amount of people are hospitalised, dying or very ill. That minuscule amount of people actually adds up to a very large and sometimes incomprehensible number of people. Not to mention the effect it has on those around them.

We really need to deal with covid as I don’t believe we are yet at the stage that we can learn to live with it. 

I really don’t have anything massively positive to say about Covid. It’s bad, very very bad. 
 

I agree that using spin or not being honest can cause lots of damage. Some of the false information on vaccines for example has held us back enormously. 
 

In what way? The vaccine uptake is phenomenal.

What you call false information many would call genuine concerns.

To pretend to know everything about the vaccine is giving out false information, any long term side effects (if there are any) will not be known for years to come. 

Just to clarify here, I have had both vaccines as I thought it was the right thing to do but I'm under no illusions that it is a calculated risk on my part and anyone that tries to tell me otherwise is lying.

[jimmyp]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

In what way? The vaccine uptake is phenomenal.

What you call false information many would call genuine concerns.

To pretend to know everything about the vaccine is giving out false information, any long term side effects (if there are any) will not be known for years to come. 

Just to clarify here, I have had both vaccines as I thought it was the right thing to do but I'm under no illusions that it is a calculated risk on my part and anyone that tries to tell me otherwise is lying.

The vaccine uptake has been great, but it’s still not at the point which enables us to maintain a standard of life that most would call normal. We still haven’t offered it to the 12 + category, many of whom wish to receive the vaccine. We still have a much lower uptake within certain parts of the population.

I’m talking about the absolutely outrageous claims the anti vaccine brigade have been making on platforms such as Twitter and Facebook. Graphene, 5G, microchips, mind control, more people die from the vaccine than COVID etc, claims we absolutely 100% know to be false. Some of these claims are packaged to seem very believable.  

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

The vaccine uptake has been great, but it’s still not at the point which enables us to maintain a standard of life that most would call normal. We still haven’t offered it to the 12 + category, many of whom wish to receive the vaccine. We still have a much lower uptake within certain parts of the population.

I’m talking about the absolutely outrageous claims the anti vaccine brigade have been making on platforms such as Twitter and Facebook. Graphene, 5G, microchips, mind control, more people die from the vaccine than COVID etc, claims we absolutely 100% know to be false. Some of these claims are packaged to seem very believable.  

Personally think it is very irresponsible trying to push the vaccines on to the 12+ category.

We are definitely at a stage where we can get back to living a normal life. The vulnerable have been offered the vaccine and if they do not want it then that is them choosing how to use their personal responsibility. 

Those unable to have it are unlikely  to ever be able to have it and need to find a way to adapt that makes them feel comfortable.

As much as I agree with what you say, anyone claiming to be 100% on Covid facts is not telling the truth at this point.