PistoldPete Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 8 minutes ago, maxjam said: You still haven't replied as to why the Govt and media are misleading the public on a regular basis. Instead you seem to want to project what others do on a regular basis to Jamie Jenkins quoting actual Govt statistics. Jamie Jenkins posts data. Actual data from the Govt website. He's not a Govt official or media personality that blindly states '90% of people...' that never get officially challenged or 'fact checked' despite thousands of complaints to Ofcom. He posts actual reliable data. He may or may not have an opinion, we all do, but that doesn't change the data and at least his opinion is based on fact rather than made up statistics that are being erroneously force fed us on a daily basis. Furthermore in many of his posts he adds disclaimers such as this one at the bottom and has mentioned numerous times that he is double vaxxed and pro-vaccine. So much for misleading guff. The Government are bad at Maths. They are Latin scholars, lawyers, PR consultants and academics. Put someone like Johnson or Raab up and they will quote the wrong figures . what the statistics do prove is that you are far more likely to be hospitalised if you have not been vaccinated . The fact that the Government numpties cannot use the right stats doesn’t mean their basic message is wrong. ariotofmyown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 i-Ram, angieram, EtoileSportiveDeDerby and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 4 hours ago, Bob The Badger said: I wish I'd read this before I responded to your other post because it's utter nonsense. Im not sure how asking a question is nonsense. Happy for you to go through the questions one by one and tell me why though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 I see now that 40% of patients being recorded as in hospital with Covid are actually primarily being treated for sonething else ? you couldn't make this up! Archied 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 3 hours ago, Bob The Badger said: i bet she feels as silly as the 41-year-old ex-world champion kickboxer who died recently. 46 and certainly doesn't look overweight, although she was unvaccinated. California prosecutor who campaigned against vaccine mandates dies of Covid. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/06/kelly-ernby-california-prosecutor-dies-covid Give that woman a Herman Cain award. And then follow it up with a Darwin award. Remember when we all used to laugh at Darwin award winners and nobody said we were sick and heartless? That was back in the days when we weren't surrounded by snowflakes though. Bob The Badger and Wolfie 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew3000 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 https://probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com/2021/12/covid-19-definitions-matter-and-these.html?m=1 The fundamental issue seems to be that the data is hugely flawed because of poor definitions of various categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said: https://probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com/2021/12/covid-19-definitions-matter-and-these.html?m=1 The fundamental issue seems to be that the data is hugely flawed because of poor definitions of various categories. It's been blatantly obvious from the start that how we define/defined Covid deaths is different to other countries. And like you say, that plays a huge part in the data and then decision making and models. Either that or our health system is one of the worst in the world. Edited January 7, 2022 by Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 22 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I see now that 40% of patients being recorded as in hospital with Covid are actually primarily being treated for sonething else ? you couldn't make this up! They’ve been doing similar with deaths the whole pandemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I see now that 40% of patients being recorded as in hospital with Covid are actually primarily being treated for sonething else ? you couldn't make this up! Why the drama?. This has always been the case - especially with the milder Omicron variant - though the last number I saw was 33%. There have always been asymptomatic cases identified at hospital goods-in, as it were. I understand it's still a complication because they have to be then isolated along with the patients who are being treated for Covid. The covid wards then have a much more complicated cross-section of conditions being treated in them, which is putting further pressure on staffing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said: https://probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com/2021/12/covid-19-definitions-matter-and-these.html?m=1 The fundamental issue seems to be that the data is hugely flawed because of poor definitions of various categories. So you think you have 10 deaths in a care home in a week during a Covid outbreak, do you really need to test everyone? If they didn’t have testing kits which they didn’t early in the pandemic and seem to be short again now. don’t you think a doctor could work it out without testing everyone? also I know of people who died of organ failure long after the 28 days. COVID was the cause of death and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 13 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said: https://probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com/2021/12/covid-19-definitions-matter-and-these.html?m=1 The fundamental issue seems to be that the data is hugely flawed because of poor definitions of various categories. There are lots of problems with the data - agreed. Perhaps the biggest problem is that the official data doesn't count re-infections. Can you believe that!? It means that the longer the pandemic goes on the more incorrect the cases data gets! As a result, if you want to track the actual impact of Covid over time, Hospital Admissions data is a much better metric. Andrew3000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew3000 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) Sorry this is meant for @PistoldPete, forgot to quote. Scientific research would require standardised diagnostic testing so yes. Prof Fenton is pointing out the flaws from a research data point of view, not a pragmatic clinician view. Of course Covid has caused deaths and serious illness the question is about validity and accuracy of the numbers we have collected. This applies to both Covid & vaccine safety. So what is your view of the definitions given and the implications for the data and therefore the decisions made on this data? Edited January 7, 2022 by Andrew3000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew3000 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 15 minutes ago, therealhantsram said: There are lots of problems with the data - agreed. Perhaps the biggest problem is that the official data doesn't count re-infections. Can you believe that!? It means that the longer the pandemic goes on the more incorrect the cases data gets! As a result, if you want to track the actual impact of Covid over time, Hospital Admissions data is a much 30 minutes ago, Norman said: It's been blatantly obvious from the start that how we define/defined Covid deaths is different to other countries. And like you say, that plays a huge part in the data and then decision making and models. Either that or our health system is one of the worst in the world. Yes, we've known this for a while just thought it was worth reierating as the stats discussion progressed. It worries me that people like Prof Fenton are being silenced, how can youtube justify taking down his presentations and why is he suddenly having trouble publishing his data? This pattern is very troubling on a number of levels and is one reason I am cautious and sceptical about our strategy to manage this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said: Sorry this is meant for @PistoldPete, forgot to quote. Scientific research would require standardised diagnostic testing so yes. Prof Fenton is pointing out the flaws from a research data point of view, not a pragmatic clinician view. Of course Covid has caused deaths and serious illness the question is about validity and accuracy of the numbers we have collected. This applies to both Covid & vaccine safety. So what is your view of the definitions given and the implications for the data and therefore the decisions made on this data? There was debate on this forum about COVID and causation.. when the Rams were at first defending the claim that their adminstration was caused by COVID. I believe the proper legal test is what was the most proximate cause of an event. So Mel Morris historic overspending was irrelevant to that. The fact COVID knocked a £30 m plus hole in our finances was what caused us to go into admin. The Rams are not dead , and will not die, but you get my drift. Their insolvency event was caused by COVID. Same principle is applied by doctors. There may be other contributory causes, but if you had COVID less than 28 days ago, well then it is extremely unlikely that wasn't the most proximate cause of death. And I don't think doctors have to rely on the 28 day rule as I have said they can use their profesisional judgment that's their job. In terms of policy decisions, I think Governments do need to consider whether some of the COVID deaths may be of people who may not have had much time left so they need to look at those stats as well, and they should not be locking down young people and stopping them from going about their lives. Edited January 7, 2022 by PistoldPete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 5 hours ago, PistoldPete said: She has got her freedom now, free from all life’s troubles. The quote and the laugh imogi ??♂️??♂️,, lovely people ,NOT ramit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Question for everyone:- In YOUR mind/opinion, is it acceptable for a fellow human to be more fearful of the unknown (vaccine) than of the Covid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 3 hours ago, PistoldPete said: The Government are bad at Maths. They are Latin scholars, lawyers, PR consultants and academics. Put someone like Johnson or Raab up and they will quote the wrong figures . what the statistics do prove is that you are far more likely to be hospitalised if you have not been vaccinated . The fact that the Government numpties cannot use the right stats doesn’t mean their basic message is wrong. Actually it does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Wolfie said: Why the drama?. This has always been the case - especially with the milder Omicron variant - though the last number I saw was 33%. There have always been asymptomatic cases identified at hospital goods-in, as it were. I understand it's still a complication because they have to be then isolated along with the patients who are being treated for Covid. The covid wards then have a much more complicated cross-section of conditions being treated in them, which is putting further pressure on staffing. No drama but when people are clamouring for more restrictions based on hospital numbers its pretty important to estabish how many people are actually being hospitalised because of Covid maxjam, Archied, Andrew3000 and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew3000 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Question for everyone:- In YOUR mind/opinion, is it acceptable for a fellow human to be more fearful of the unknown (vaccine) than of the Covid? Yes, of course. Although for some Covid was at some point the unknown. Fear of both is completely understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 hours ago, GboroRam said: Give that woman a Herman Cain award. And then follow it up with a Darwin award. Remember when we all used to laugh at Darwin award winners and nobody said we were sick and heartless? That was back in the days when we weren't surrounded by snowflakes though. Jeez remember the flak I got , you snowflakes were creaming your pants to call me all sorts , you all behave far far worse and that’s ok , just like Johnson’s mob the sham pain socialists set rules and standards for others that don’t apply to themselves ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account.
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now