The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[GboroRam]

My take on it: I'll be glad to get back to normality so social distancing and mask wearing is a thing of the past.

I'm a little concerned that the high case rate may translate into more cases in hospital but so far, that doesn't seem to be happening. So far, so good.

We need to keep the vaccination programme running at the same pace as it is now, as we know that it doesn't take much for people to start catching it. I heard a story about a couple of people in a crappy little fishing town in the north who went for a few glasses of dry white wine with friends, now they're both self isolating. Pubs full of people, with someone in there spreading the virus around, passing it through their colleagues, friends and family - the best defence for everyone is to get vaccinated, let's get numbers down to as low as we can.

I'll probably be ready to keep wearing a mask, in public crowded indoor places, if that seems to be the social norm. If I'm in a supermarket I'll put one on, but if I find 90% of shoppers aren't doing it, I'll not bother. I'm double jabbed, so although I don't feel invincible, I don't think I'm at risk of dying. But you never know.

I think we'll be scrapping the masks and the social distancing. It'll be back to normal with hygiene measures soon (with people not bothering washing their hands after they've been for a poo, never mind carrying back the shopping from the car). Because people are dirty sods at the best of times.

[ariotofmyown]

6 hours ago, maxjam said:

And so they should if they provide a bit of balance.  If you watched the clip you would have seen them present the case for both sides?

Of course the alternative is watching the likes of Beth Rigby hypocritically arguing against the lifting of restrictions whilst not giving a flying f. about them herself.

Yeah did watch it all. Where you see balance, I see someone trying to divide people and create controversy. Make out people are in 2 extreme camps and will hate each other.

I imagine most people will wear masks less, but will usually put them on when indoors and close to people they don't know.  Most people understand that wearing a mask can help them stop spreading Covid, which is a reasonable objective when cases are flying up again.

A minority of people will proudly not wear masks when everyone else is, even when they could be close to unvaccinated/vulnerable people.

A different minority will never go out, even though they've been fully vaccinated and have no health conditions.

Most people are fairly considerate and don't need telling that everyone is on two extreme sides of the latest media stoked "war".

[ariotofmyown]

8 hours ago, jimmyp said:

Julia is just trying to create controversy so more people listen to her radio show.  Thank god for these heros of balance in the media. 

[Archied]

20 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Yeah did watch it all. Where you see balance, I see someone trying to divide people and create controversy. Make out people are in 2 extreme camps and will hate each other.

I imagine most people will wear masks less, but will usually put them on when indoors and close to people they don't know.  Most people understand that wearing a mask can help them stop spreading Covid, which is a reasonable objective when cases are flying up again.

A minority of people will proudly not wear masks when everyone else is, even when they could be close to unvaccinated/vulnerable people.

A different minority will never go out, even though they've been fully vaccinated and have no health conditions.

Most people are fairly considerate and don't need telling that everyone is on two extreme sides of the latest media stoked "war".

And yet your happy chose your camp  ( before this news clip ) ,claim altruistic moral high ground and virtue for your position and label those who don’t go along with your course the same old same old selfish killers of others
yeah they are causing a dive where there’s none and you have no part in??????

Edited July 6, 2021 by Archied

[Archied]

16 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Julia is just trying to create controversy so more people listen to her radio show.  Thank god for these heros of balance in the media. 

Yes of course she is , how could she actually hold an opinion ?????, seems clear anything that is not in line with your opinion has no value whatsoever 

[maxjam]

4 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Yeah did watch it all. Where you see balance, I see someone trying to divide people and create controversy. Make out people are in 2 extreme camps and will hate each other.

I imagine most people will wear masks less, but will usually put them on when indoors and close to people they don't know.  Most people understand that wearing a mask can help them stop spreading Covid, which is a reasonable objective when cases are flying up again.

A minority of people will proudly not wear masks when everyone else is, even when they could be close to unvaccinated/vulnerable people.

A different minority will never go out, even though they've been fully vaccinated and have no health conditions.

Most people are fairly considerate and don't need telling that everyone is on two extreme sides of the latest media stoked "war".

Yep I see this new evil right wing hate speech news channel regularly giving both sides of an argument a voice ?‍♂️

If your arguments are 'Why shouldn't they make money from it?'  or  'They are stoking division'  then the same applies even more so to the BBC, ITV, Sky etc.  Whether you like it or not, it will be news - you only have to look on this forum recently to see the two factions forming. 

The only difference I see this time however is that there is a news channel that is at least trying to remain impartial whereas the established media as with Brexit for example split into Brexit/Remainer camps and regularly poured scorn on the other side. 

Of course some people may prefer to watch Welsh Paw Patrol instead, they probably have the right idea - keep out of the argument altogether but for the rest of us, it will be everywhere you look.

[Gone]

I hope now as well we stop counting and reporting case numbers as well. If hospitalisations and or deaths see significant increase in certain areas then that’s the time for action, with the vaccination program surely cases numbers are now irrelevant. 
 

Anyway great news froM BJ yesterday, all be it about a Month to late (data not data) 

 

[ariotofmyown]

10 minutes ago, Archied said:

And yet your happy chose your camp  ( before this news clip ) ,claim altruistic moral high ground and virtue for your position and label those who don’t go along with your course the same old same old selfish killers of others
yeah they are causing a dive where there’s none and you have no part in??????

You seem to have trouble following what I said. I was criticising GB News for stoking controversy and dividing people for money, but you seem to have read it as something to do with killers and diving?

[Archied]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

You seem to have trouble following what I said. I was criticising GB News for stoking controversy and dividing people for money, but you seem to have read it as something to do with killers and diving?

Yep so not being an echo chamber for your views is dividing people for money ,, my god do these people have no virtue,,tut tut tut 

you seem happy to throw out the same old accusations at those who will now ditch the masks and accuse those who give the other side of opinion of doing it for money ????, so anything that aligns with your view virtuous and good , anything that doesn’t bad and self serving ,,,,,, I read what your saying very clearly thanks

[G STAR RAM]

26 minutes ago, Archied said:

Yes of course she is , how could she actually hold an opinion ?????, seems clear anything that is not in line with your opinion has no value whatsoever 

To be honest, I think its a really dumb thing to tweet.

I have actually enjoyed listening to JHB throughout this pandemic. One of the few people that has felt like they are on the side of the every day working man.

Whether her viewpoint is right or wrong, she has regularly asked the questions that the opposition should have been asking (its no surprise to see that Starmer is backing the wrong horse again).

But back to the point, how can someone else wearing a mask make JHB feel uncomfortable? What if the person is vulnerable? Should they remove their mask just to make her feel better?

What does she want? The Government to mandate that people cant wear masks? 

Personally, I think the Government have finally got it right in making this about personal responsibility, that means making decisions to suit your own needs, what other people are doing should be irrelevant if you are managing your own risk correctly.

[ariotofmyown]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

To be honest, I think its a really dumb thing to tweet.

I have actually enjoyed listening to JHB throughout this pandemic. One of the few people that has felt like they are on the side of the every day working man.

Whether her viewpoint is right or wrong, she has regularly asked the questions that the opposition should have been asking (its no surprise to see that Starmer is backing the wrong horse again).

But back to the point, how can someone else wearing a mask make JHB feel uncomfortable? What if the person is vulnerable? Should they remove their mask just to make her feel better?

What does she want? The Government to mandate that people cant wear masks? 

Personally, I think the Government have finally got it right in making this about personal responsibility, that means making decisions to suit your own needs, what other people are doing should be irrelevant if you are managing your own risk correctly.

Yeah good post and why it looked to me as a desperate attempt to generate controversy when there is none there.

[alexxxxx]

19 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I hope now as well we stop counting and reporting case numbers as well. If hospitalisations and or deaths see significant increase in certain areas then that’s the time for action, with the vaccination program surely cases numbers are now irrelevant. 
 

Anyway great news froM BJ yesterday, all be it about a Month to late (data not data) 

 

I'm not sure intentionally hiding data/not collecting it is the right way to go about this. Its in everyone's interest that there's transparency in the outcome of the result. I'm sure the government would love the jump on we did the right thing. 

Cases aren't irrelevant, as hospitalisations and deaths are clearly a function of cases (although the ratio is much lower than it was). 

Anecdotally I know a lot of people being exposed to covid, and due to my age I have not had chance to have 2 vaccines. The vaccine roll out has slowed down a lot after it hit the under 40s.

I would have preferred that everyone had the chance to be double vaccinated prior to reopening as I think there is a risk of huge numbers of people getting it and even more having to isolate. 

I know I'm supposedly not at (much) risk, but equally I don't like being told that my health doesn't matter either. 

The self isolation stuff is going to be a nightmare this summer. Booked to go away in August so unless the rules change, we're going to have to have a quiet week before to reduce the risk of coming in to contact with people. 

[ramsbottom]

12 hours ago, rammieib said:

I think if the covid cases go down in the medium term, which i expect they will because that's what a virus does, then over time the maskers will slowly demask. They will start going out, forgetting their mask and just going sod it.

Only got to look at the test events to realize that people are not concerned now. Fair enough a few still will and I won't think one bit differently about them and respect their wishes completely but I full expect on July 19th to see 60-70 % without a mask and this to continue up towards 98% after a couple of months.

 

I think this is the key thing.  I see loads folk wearing them when they're in cars, on their own, or simply walking down the road.  In my opinion that's being overly cautious but I won't call them out on it, it's whatever makes you feel comfortable.

[Gone]

1 minute ago, alexxxxx said:

I'm not sure intentionally hiding data/not collecting it is the right way to go about this. Its in everyone's interest that there's transparency in the outcome of the result. I'm sure the government would love the jump on we did the right thing. 

Cases aren't irrelevant, as hospitalisations and deaths are clearly a function of cases (although the ratio is much lower than it was). 

Anecdotally I know a lot of people being exposed to covid, and due to my age I have not had chance to have 2 vaccines. The vaccine roll out has slowed down a lot after it hit the under 40s.

I would have preferred that everyone had the chance to be double vaccinated prior to reopening as I think there is a risk of huge numbers of people getting it and even more having to isolate. 

I know I'm supposedly not at (much) risk, but equally I don't like being told that my health doesn't matter either. 

The self isolation stuff is going to be a nightmare this summer. Booked to go away in August so unless the rules change, we're going to have to have a quiet week before to reduce the risk of coming in to contact with people. 

But if the cases/hospitalisation ratio is now close to flu (I don’t know if it is or isn’t) then why don’t we measure and communicate flu cases? I just think living with Covid means it doesn’t have to be measured and promoted at on every media channel going. 
Doesn’t the data also show the effects of Covid don’t negatively effect the under 40s (obviously there are some unfortunate cases) and those it does effect eg the vulnerable under 40 should of been protected by the vaccinations.  

[ariotofmyown]

36 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Yep I see this new evil right wing hate speech news channel regularly giving both sides of an argument a voice ?‍♂️

If your arguments are 'Why shouldn't they make money from it?'  or  'They are stoking division'  then the same applies even more so to the BBC, ITV, Sky etc.  Whether you like it or not, it will be news - you only have to look on this forum recently to see the two factions forming. 

The only difference I see this time however is that there is a news channel that is at least trying to remain impartial whereas the established media as with Brexit for example split into Brexit/Remainer camps and regularly poured scorn on the other side. 

Of course some people may prefer to watch Welsh Paw Patrol instead, they probably have the right idea - keep out of the argument altogether but for the rest of us, it will be everywhere you look.

You obviously watch much more tv news than me, but do you really think the piece you posted earlier is doing any good? You've been massively critical of the media, GB News just seems to be more of what you accuse the other news channels of.

That video wasn't giving another voice to the debate. It was deliberately trying to divide people to create controversy.

The other video I've seen of GB News of was Andrew Neil saying "Boris bottles it" on the previous lockdown extension, whilst saying he agreed with the decision and it was prudent.

I'd have thought you'd have been disappointed with this trashy tabloid style of media.

[ramsbottom]

17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

To be honest, I think its a really dumb thing to tweet.

I have actually enjoyed listening to JHB throughout this pandemic. One of the few people that has felt like they are on the side of the every day working man.

Whether her viewpoint is right or wrong, she has regularly asked the questions that the opposition should have been asking (its no surprise to see that Starmer is backing the wrong horse again).

But back to the point, how can someone else wearing a mask make JHB feel uncomfortable? What if the person is vulnerable? Should they remove their mask just to make her feel better?

What does she want? The Government to mandate that people cant wear masks? 

Personally, I think the Government have finally got it right in making this about personal responsibility, that means making decisions to suit your own needs, what other people are doing should be irrelevant if you are managing your own risk correctly.

i feel very conflicted when it comes to JHB.  Like Katy "Horse Faced ****" Hopkins, 90% of the reactionary crap she spouts is done for shock value and clicks/listens as she tries to stay relevant and employed.  But unlike Hopkins, she's got a definite MILF thing going on.  Definitely confuses both my heads...

[maxjam]

16 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

I would have preferred that everyone had the chance to be double vaccinated prior to reopening as I think there is a risk of huge numbers of people getting it and even more having to isolate. 

I think that most people have had the chance to get at least 1 jab now, and Boris mentioned yesterday that they were reducing the gap between 1st and 2nd jabs to 8 weeks so that everyone could get both well before any potential winter spike.

10 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

But if the cases/hospitalisation ratio is now close to flu (I don’t know if it is or isn’t) then why don’t we measure and communicate flu cases? I just think living with Covid means it doesn’t have to be measured and promoted at on every media channel going. 
Doesn’t the data also show the effects of Covid don’t negatively effect the under 40s (obviously there are some unfortunate cases) and those it does effect eg the vulnerable under 40 should of been protected by the vaccinations.  

The original plan was to jab the over 50s and vulnerable.  I would imagine that a lot of under 40s haven't yet taken up the offer of being jabbed due to the lack of long term data - their risk is negligible so the vaccine uptake rates are understandably dropping off. 

If everyone has the opportunity to be double jabbed by September but declines there is little more the Govt can do.  The numbers needing hospital treatment in that age group should be minimal and therefore the NHS won't be under the same pressure it has been.

As Boris said yesterday, we either open up now or wait another few months by which time we'll be approaching the winter spike - which will mean delaying again to the spring.  Unless you are going to illegally force people to have jabs we've now done all we can. 

Everyone that wants a jab will have been jabbed and for everyone else they are playing the odds and taking personal responsibility.  The data shows us that whilst infections may rise, NHS usage and deaths will remain relatively low and constant - and thats what we're going to have to live with.

My last remaining hope is that they stop publishing the daily data from the 19th.  We don't get daily cancer or flu deaths etc unless something significantly changes, we no longer need them for covid.

Edited July 6, 2021 by maxjam

[Archied]

17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

To be honest, I think its a really dumb thing to tweet.

I have actually enjoyed listening to JHB throughout this pandemic. One of the few people that has felt like they are on the side of the every day working man.

Whether her viewpoint is right or wrong, she has regularly asked the questions that the opposition should have been asking (its no surprise to see that Starmer is backing the wrong horse again).

But back to the point, how can someone else wearing a mask make JHB feel uncomfortable? What if the person is vulnerable? Should they remove their mask just to make her feel better?

What does she want? The Government to mandate that people cant wear masks? 

Personally, I think the Government have finally got it right in making this about personal responsibility, that means making decisions to suit your own needs, what other people are doing should be irrelevant if you are managing your own risk correctly.

Playing devils advocate here it’s not that long ago that people wearing masks and face coverings DID make people uncomfortable,walk into a bank without removing your crash helmet and see what happened or a face covering come to that ??‍♂️,we are now being guided to a world where we all wear face coverings which anybody with a lick of sense knows are bits of paper the do next to nothing against a virus and in very short time will clog the world with discarded waste,

I don’t want a world where our children and grandchildren spend all day sitting in masks so yes people needlessly wearing masks and normalising it does make me feel uncomfortable 

[ariotofmyown]

10 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

I'm not sure intentionally hiding data/not collecting it is the right way to go about this. Its in everyone's interest that there's transparency in the outcome of the result. I'm sure the government would love the jump on we did the right thing. 

Cases aren't irrelevant, as hospitalisations and deaths are clearly a function of cases (although the ratio is much lower than it was). 

Anecdotally I know a lot of people being exposed to covid, and due to my age I have not had chance to have 2 vaccines. The vaccine roll out has slowed down a lot after it hit the under 40s.

I would have preferred that everyone had the chance to be double vaccinated prior to reopening as I think there is a risk of huge numbers of people getting it and even more having to isolate. 

I know I'm supposedly not at (much) risk, but equally I don't like being told that my health doesn't matter either. 

The self isolation stuff is going to be a nightmare this summer. Booked to go away in August so unless the rules change, we're going to have to have a quiet week before to reduce the risk of coming in to contact with people. 

Good post. I'm not really sure why removing all restrictions now trumps the points you raise. I'm not particularly convinced by the "if not now, then when" argument. The "when" could be in a few weeks when all adults are double vaccinated.

I'm surprised I haven't seen much discussion about new variants either. The higher the case numbers, the higher the chance of a more dangerous variant occurring. Perhaps they are more likely to occur within more seriously ill people, of which there are loads less now of course?

I really hope this 3rd wave doesn't result in a variant that puts us back to square one again. At least we are selflessly acting as a test case for the world though. I'm not sure any other country with high vaccination rates and high case numbers has removed all restrictions yet. Fingers crossed it goes well.

[maxjam]

11 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

You obviously watch much more tv news than me, but do you really think the piece you posted earlier is doing any good? You've been massively critical of the media, GB News just seems to be more of what you accuse the other news channels of.

That video wasn't giving another voice to the debate. It was deliberately trying to divide people to create controversy.

The other video I've seen of GB News of was Andrew Neil saying "Boris bottles it" on the previous lockdown extension, whilst saying he agreed with the decision and it was prudent.

I'd have thought you'd have been disappointed with this trashy tabloid style of media.

I'll admit its not perfect but at least GB News does give both sides of the argument a voice imho.  

Again, the alternative is the BBC/Sky etc that didn't comment on the thousands upon thousands 'Marching for Freedom' for example - or when pushed said there were just a few hundred in attendance lol. 

Anyway the GB News thread has been locked so we'd probably better leave it here, I just thought the clip I posted last night was interesting as it highlighted the 2 factions that were becoming very apparent on this forum yesterday.