Brammie Steve Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Pélé said that one day he and Diego will enjoy a kickabout in the sky! Says it all really! I loved watching him on Parky once? Parkinson (translated) Tell us about that goal in 1986 against England.... Maradonna ¿La segunda? (Didn't need translating that!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Sith Happens said: Out of curiosity why do you have such a low opinion ? Don't get me wrong if I could pick someone to go for a pint with he wouldn't be close to the top of my list but I have no Ill feelings. I know he has battled addiction and this impacted his career, notably being kicked out of a world cup. Lots of people battle addiction. OK, I'll take your curiosity at face value @Sith Happens, and perhaps we can accept that I think he was a great footballer, at his best. As a human being he was not great. He took performance enhancing drugs, caught more than once; he was a serial adulterer; he denied being the father of several children he did father; he was directly associated with organised crime in Naples; and that's before all the cocaine/drinking and everything else. He was a liar and a cheat (not including the 'goal' he scored against England, the first one). I'm interested why people would somehow excuse all that behaviour 'because he had an addiction' - that they wouldn't excuse in others in other walks of life - just because he was a footballer or because he has died. I suspect that many on here wouldn't have wanted him as a son-in-law. It's nothing to do with respect or respecting the dead and everything to do with accepting that as flawed human beings go he was as flawed as they come despite his moments of genius. And George Best was highly flawed too as a human being, who died today 15 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 11 minutes ago, ilkleyram said: OK, I'll take your curiosity at face value @Sith Happens, and perhaps we can accept that I think he was a great footballer, at his best. As a human being he was not great. He took performance enhancing drugs, caught more than once; he was a serial adulterer; he denied being the father of several children he did father; he was directly associated with organised crime in Naples; and that's before all the cocaine/drinking and everything else. He was a liar and a cheat (not including the 'goal' he scored against England, the first one). I'm interested why people would somehow excuse all that behaviour 'because he had an addiction' - that they wouldn't excuse in others in other walks of life - just because he was a footballer or because he has died. I suspect that many on here wouldn't have wanted him as a son-in-law. It's nothing to do with respect or respecting the dead and everything to do with accepting that as flawed human beings go he was as flawed as they come despite his moments of genius. And George Best was highly flawed too as a human being, who died today 15 years ago It takes courage to speak your mind, especially in this day and age and tbh I agree with a lot of what you said. Whilst I defended Lawrence, Keogh, etc for the 'incident' a while back, a one of misdemeanour is a lot easier to forgive than a lifetime of er, lets say 'ill judgement'. Sad that he's gone - 60 is no age these days and football has lost one of its best players. For me however he will always be a flawed genius that cheated us out of a potential World Cup Semi Final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 51 minutes ago, ilkleyram said: OK, I'll take your curiosity at face value @Sith Happens, and perhaps we can accept that I think he was a great footballer, at his best. As a human being he was not great. He took performance enhancing drugs, caught more than once; he was a serial adulterer; he denied being the father of several children he did father; he was directly associated with organised crime in Naples; and that's before all the cocaine/drinking and everything else. He was a liar and a cheat (not including the 'goal' he scored against England, the first one). I'm interested why people would somehow excuse all that behaviour 'because he had an addiction' - that they wouldn't excuse in others in other walks of life - just because he was a footballer or because he has died. I suspect that many on here wouldn't have wanted him as a son-in-law. It's nothing to do with respect or respecting the dead and everything to do with accepting that as flawed human beings go he was as flawed as they come despite his moments of genius. And George Best was highly flawed too as a human being, who died today 15 years ago Good post. Your first one seemed a tad churlish as the title clearly stated RIP Diego Maradona. The title would tend to attract posters to maybe remember his footballing prowess rather than his failings as a human being. None of us are perfect and Maradona was probably less perfect than most of us - but, he was one of the greatest footballers of all time and people genuinely like to pay respect to football greatness on a football forum. Good shout out to Bestie, another flawed genius. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 19 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Good post. Your first one seemed a tad churlish as the title clearly stated RIP Diego Maradona. The title would tend to attract posters to maybe remember his footballing prowess rather than his failings as a human being. None of us are perfect and Maradona was probably less perfect than most of us - but, he was one of the greatest footballers of all time and people genuinely like to pay respect to football greatness on a football forum. Good shout out to Bestie, another flawed genius. ? Fair points all utch. We are all of us, to different degrees certainly, flawed, but it always puzzles me that those flaws are frequently airbrushed out when we die, yet they are part of what we are and what we contribute to a wider society. I'm sure that Mr Maradona (and Mr Best) gave a lot of people a great deal of pleasure but they also gave a lot of hurt, more, I would suggest, than many or most. I would guess that Callum, Angie and Alex Best might have a slightly more nuanced view of George the man, member of society and human being than the average football fan who loved his body of work. Shouldn't remembering someone, even on the day of their death, be about remembering the whole person rather than just one aspect of their life? And perhaps accepting (or at least being open to the idea) that overall the hurts might outweigh the pleasures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, ilkleyram said: Fair points all utch. We are all of us, to different degrees certainly, flawed, but it always puzzles me that those flaws are frequently airbrushed out when we die, yet they are part of what we are and what we contribute to a wider society. I'm sure that Mr Maradona (and Mr Best) gave a lot of people a great deal of pleasure but they also gave a lot of hurt, more, I would suggest, than many or most. I would guess that Callum, Angie and Alex Best might have a slightly more nuanced view of George the man, member of society and human being than the average football fan who loved his body of work. Shouldn't remembering someone, even on the day of their death, be about remembering the whole person rather than just one aspect of their life? And perhaps accepting (or at least being open to the idea) that overall the hurts might outweigh the pleasures. Can't disagree with any of that Ilkley. Not sure what the answer is. We've probably all been to funerals where the eulogy has made the deceased seem like Mother Theresa while theres a bloke at the back of the Church thinking "he was a raite XXXX". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewsFromTheMiddle Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier ram Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 I will remember Maradona as a footballer not the man off the pitch , quite simply world class , an absolute joy to watch , except against us , RIP Diego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWC1983 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 His displays in the 86 world Cup were jaw dropping. I'd never seen anyone display skill, athleticism and hunger game after game like that before. Italy, England, Belgium, West Germany all put to the sword in his swashbuckling style. Its a shame that Football Italia wasn't on our screens during his halcyon Napoli days. The L'equipe front page today is a masterpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 9 hours ago, ilkleyram said: OK, I'll take your curiosity at face value @Sith Happens, and perhaps we can accept that I think he was a great footballer, at his best. As a human being he was not great. He took performance enhancing drugs, caught more than once; he was a serial adulterer; he denied being the father of several children he did father; he was directly associated with organised crime in Naples; and that's before all the cocaine/drinking and everything else. He was a liar and a cheat (not including the 'goal' he scored against England, the first one). I'm interested why people would somehow excuse all that behaviour 'because he had an addiction' - that they wouldn't excuse in others in other walks of life - just because he was a footballer or because he has died. I suspect that many on here wouldn't have wanted him as a son-in-law. It's nothing to do with respect or respecting the dead and everything to do with accepting that as flawed human beings go he was as flawed as they come despite his moments of genius. And George Best was highly flawed too as a human being, who died today 15 years ago Fair points. I cant say its enough for me to say im not sorry hes gone, life is precious and perhaps in his case its sad that someone so talented allowed his life to spiral out of control when it did. As you say a great footballer. Hopefully he can RIP and his demons can be laid to rest too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 10 hours ago, ilkleyram said: OK, I'll take your curiosity at face value @Sith Happens, and perhaps we can accept that I think he was a great footballer, at his best. As a human being he was not great. He took performance enhancing drugs, caught more than once; he was a serial adulterer; he denied being the father of several children he did father; he was directly associated with organised crime in Naples; and that's before all the cocaine/drinking and everything else. He was a liar and a cheat (not including the 'goal' he scored against England, the first one). I'm interested why people would somehow excuse all that behaviour 'because he had an addiction' - that they wouldn't excuse in others in other walks of life - just because he was a footballer or because he has died. I suspect that many on here wouldn't have wanted him as a son-in-law. It's nothing to do with respect or respecting the dead and everything to do with accepting that as flawed human beings go he was as flawed as they come despite his moments of genius. And George Best was highly flawed too as a human being, who died today 15 years ago He was exploited in Naples, almost treated like they were treating the sex workers they controlled. His drug use was cast upon him as a lonely foreigner with no support network. Dig a little deeper and his story is actually a tragedy. His addiction then meant needing other stimulants to perform, by this time, the damage was done as a professional athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Idolised by millions of kids in the 80s including me. What a player, we all know his off the field life - but the man set off the likes of Messi and Ronaldos of today, albeit with less personality than him. A complete one off. RIP Diego ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Football is taken pretty seriously in South America. Players have been assassinated for missing penalties or scoring own goals. If you were an Argentinian player who's just scored with his hand to put his team ahead in a World Cup quarter final do you say "Actually ref that was handball, please disallow it?" Best remedy is to then score a world class wonder goal I reckon! Maradonna was definitely no Frank Lampard IMHO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson. Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 20 hours ago, oomarkwright said: The little cheat couldn't cheat death. Honestly, is that the best you can do. Lets overlook the Scholes hand ball, Owen diving or Atherton's ball tampering antics. But were "whiter than white" aren't we? He played in an era when you could tackle from behind and generally assault a player and get away with it. Maradona took the lot, still stood on his feet and embarrassed them some more. Contrast that with todays prima dona's with their simulation and play acting. He was the greatest player ever. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyram59 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Sorry he was a fantastic footballer but he was also a cheat and a drug taker. I couldn't stand the man so sorry to say no sympathies from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, ziggyram59 said: Sorry he was a fantastic footballer but he was also a cheat and a drug taker. I couldn't stand the man so sorry to say no sympathies from me. He was a drug addict - not a drug “taker”, someone who suffered horrific addiction problems. With regards cheat - I lied, cheat and steal (no Eddie Guerrero memes please) to get money to fund my addiction, does it make me one now? Fair enough having no sympathies, but please maybe see what he was, a lonely, taken advantage of person who came from a very poor background to be thrusted into a world where everything rested on his shoulders. Even those with the strongest mentalities would struggle with that expectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 49 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: He was a drug addict - not a drug “taker”, someone who suffered horrific addiction problems. With regards cheat - I lied, cheat and steal (no Eddie Guerrero memes please) to get money to fund my addiction, does it make me one now? Fair enough having no sympathies, but please maybe see what he was, a lonely, taken advantage of person who came from a very poor background to be thrusted into a world where everything rested on his shoulders. Even those with the strongest mentalities would struggle with that expectation. Took performance enhancing drugs and got caught once. Next thing is we will have Lance Armstrong starting the tour or Ben Johnson opening the olympics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 57 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: He was a drug addict - not a drug “taker”, someone who suffered horrific addiction problems. With regards cheat - I lied, cheat and steal (no Eddie Guerrero memes please) to get money to fund my addiction, does it make me one now? Fair enough having no sympathies, but please maybe see what he was, a lonely, taken advantage of person who came from a very poor background to be thrusted into a world where everything rested on his shoulders. Even those with the strongest mentalities would struggle with that expectation. Yes he was a drug addict and I sympathise with the plight he got himself into, waste of talent waste of life. However people with exceptional skills tend not to built in the same way as mere mortals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oomarkwright Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 5 hours ago, Pearson. said: Honestly, is that the best you can do. Lets overlook the Scholes hand ball, Owen diving or Atherton's ball tampering antics. But were "whiter than white" aren't we? He played in an era when you could tackle from behind and generally assault a player and get away with it. Maradona took the lot, still stood on his feet and embarrassed them some more. Contrast that with todays prima dona's with their simulation and play acting. He was the greatest player ever. Simples. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriggRam Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Maradona THE Greatest footballer of ALL time........RIP Diego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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