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tinman

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NottsRam77

NottsRam77

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Personally if we'd started without Waghorn, but 11 men I think we'd easily have done better. He's not a footballer and for all everyone says put him out wide right he doesn't do enough to warrant the place. So I hope Lawrence is fit, or it might be Joz swapping sides and Ibe risked (he's clearly not 90 minutes fit).

Let’s not muck about .. tom Lawrence is hardly the answe to our prayers he’s been shocking this season 

people are quick to forget only last week Waggy played a significant hand in joz’s goal and like it or not we’re a better side attacking wise when he plays 

that says more about where we are then anything but it’s sadly true 

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NottsRam77

NottsRam77

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No he hasn't.

Excuse me ... yes he has 

goals ? Assists ? He’s been shockingly bad 

If he scored or assisted at 1% of the time that he’s turns over possession he’d be nominated for the ballon dor

hes been back to his inconsistent abysmal best 

work rate and effort I can’t and won’t fault .. prodution and value to the side for someone who’s considered a goal threat has been absolutely negligible 

when ur talking about an attacking player and their stand out feature is their work rate then u need to be concerned 

he had a cracking game against forest .... a couple of yer not bad ones ... and some absolute shockers 

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

when ur talking about an attacking player and their stand out feature is their work rate then u need to be concerned 

he had a cracking game against forest .... a couple of yer not bad ones ... and some absolute shockers 

That could be Waghorn except for the bit about a cracking game! Waghorn has well past any peak he might achieve and is an ordinary (at best) footballer, with little football intelligence. Lawrence is a better all round footballer and although also having moments where he makes poor decision is at least a skillful footballer with (still) potential to be much better. 

 

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NottsRam77

NottsRam77

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That could be Waghorn except for the bit about a cracking game! Waghorn has well past any peak he might achieve and is an ordinary (at best) footballer, with little football intelligence. Lawrence is a better all round footballer and although also having moments where he makes poor decision is at least a skillful footballer with (still) potential to be much better. 

 


moments ???

closer if u said while halves of football lol

You are bang on when u say he is an ordinary player 

but that’s the difference, waghorn generally plays much more within his limitations and makes him much more effective than lawrence... Lawrence seems to think he’s a helluva a lot better than he is and tries stuff that simply isn’t on or he’s no where near good enough to execute 

the result being he constantly turns over possession quite often in dangerous areas of the pitch for us 

best performance of the season ... last week vs Swansea ... no Lawrence over complicating stuff 

Waggy ... a simple yet oh so effective lay off to jos for that all important second goal 

not saying either are any good, far from it but Lawrence is imo detrimental to how we play as a collective ... the only thing he has got than none of the other do is the ability albeit one in 30 to pull off the spectacular 

 

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chelloram

chelloram

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That could be Waghorn except for the bit about a cracking game! Waghorn has well past any peak he might achieve and is an ordinary (at best) footballer, with little football intelligence. Lawrence is a better all round footballer and although also having moments where he makes poor decision is at least a skillful footballer with (still) potential to be much better. 

 

They're both very limited championship players at best  who aren't going to get any better. We need to off load these types of players if we have aspirations to go up in the future as they're absolutely miles away from Premier League standard. Neither of them is good at decision making, playing the right pass at the right time etc... Waghorn is an instinctive player so is ok at things where he does not have too much time to think about it, hence his abysmal conversion rate on 1 on 1,s. I can't believe you still think Lawrence still has potential , he's 27 shortly, so what we've seen largely over the last 3 and a half seasons is all we going to see in the future. He's a player to off load, not build the team around. I'd much rather have Sibley in the team than either of these two, he's got much more ability then the pair of them and if he stays level headed will achieve far more in the game. 

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Tyler Durden

Tyler Durden

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, chelloram said:

They're both very limited championship players at best  who aren't going to get any better. We need to off load these types of players if we have aspirations to go up in the future as they're absolutely miles away from Premier League standard. Neither of them is good at decision making, playing the right pass at the right time etc... Waghorn is an instinctive player so is ok at things where he does not have too much time to think about it, hence his abysmal conversion rate on 1 on 1,s. I can't believe you still think Lawrence still has potential , he's 27 shortly, so what we've seen largely over the last 3 and a half seasons is all we going to see in the future. He's a player to off load, not build the team around. I'd much rather have Sibley in the team than either of these two, he's got much more ability then the pair of them and if he stays level headed will achieve far more in the game. 

Wake up and smell the coffee as what you've said is totally contradictory. If the players are actually that bad as you state then which manager is going to be doolally enough for us to offload them onto their team? Bearing in mind Waghorns contract runs out this summer so we are in the serious realms of giving him a contract extension very soon to stop him leaving for absolutely nowt. 

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, chelloram said:

I can't believe you still think Lawrence still has potential , he's 27 shortly, so what we've seen largely over the last 3 and a half seasons is all we going to see in the future.

I think that a better manager will get more out of him, maybe not consistently but more than (or as good as) we've it seen. For me from the bit we've seen that manager can be Rooney. As for Waghorn, hope he moves on but I imagine he'll be comfortable here and we'll P&S him another year.

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chelloram

chelloram

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Wake up and smell the coffee as what you've said is totally contradictory. If the players are actually that bad as you state then which manager is going to be doolally enough for us to offload them onto their team? Bearing in mind Waghorns contract runs out this summer so we are in the serious realms of giving him a contract extension very soon to stop him leaving for absolutely nowt. 

Nothing contradictory about wanting to off load players who have shown themselves not to be good enough on multiple occasions. Let's just give them both new contracts then.

Definition of Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

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rammieib

rammieib

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Excuse me ... yes he has 

goals ? Assists ? He’s been shockingly bad 

If he scored or assisted at 1% of the time that he’s turns over possession he’d be nominated for the ballon dor

hes been back to his inconsistent abysmal best 

work rate and effort I can’t and won’t fault .. prodution and value to the side for someone who’s considered a goal threat has been absolutely negligible 

when ur talking about an attacking player and their stand out feature is their work rate then u need to be concerned 

he had a cracking game against forest .... a couple of yer not bad ones ... and some absolute shockers 

Not a fan of Jason Knight either then?

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NottsRam77

NottsRam77

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, rammieib said:

Not a fan of Jason Knight either then?

Not sure the two are comparable in the slightest 

lawrence has nearly what 7 years on Knight ? and are totally different players 

Knight for me is an engine room player and out of position when shoved out wide.

He’s going to be at his best Centrally doing the ratting so the more creative players can have the platform to do their stuff 

Lawrence is meant to be one of these more creative players 

this is obvious stuff so not sure where ur going with that tbh 

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rammieib

rammieib

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

Not sure the two are comparable in the slightest 

lawrence has nearly what 7 years on Knight ? and are totally different players 

Knight for me is an engine room player and out of position when shoved out wide.

He’s going to be at his best Centrally doing the ratting so the more creative players can have the platform to do their stuff 

Lawrence is meant to be one of these more creative players 

this is obvious stuff so not sure where ur going with that tbh 

My point was that the quote was taken about players putting in effort.

Jason Knight puts a lot of effort in, an incredible engine but are we getting enough quality output from him?

Now I’m not picking on him in isolation.

Right Now - you could put that 11 out yesterday, which probably was our best team and you’d go through it and say over a season:

Buchanan - 1 goal
Wisdom - 2
Clarke - 2
Byrne - 1
Shinnie - 3
Bielik - 3
Jozwiak - 5
Knight - 6
Waghorn - 7
CKR - 10

So all in, that team in a 4-2-3-1 will offer me 40 goals. That’s relegation or close to it. Put Lawrence or Sibley in and then just reduce the goal output from the others above and so on.

I like Rooney but this bubble will burst soon of defensive solidarity and we don’t have players to score goals.
 

Its a huge transfer window but we don’t have the players to persist 4-2-3-1 going forward as we don’t have the goal output.

We can’t keep saying effort is good if there are not enough goals. Shinnie gets a nose bleed near the opposition box for instance.

 

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Mafiabob

Mafiabob

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, rammieib said:

My point was that the quote was taken about players putting in effort.

Jason Knight puts a lot of effort in, an incredible engine but are we getting enough quality output from him?

Now I’m not picking on him in isolation.

Right Now - you could put that 11 out yesterday, which probably was our best team and you’d go through it and say over a season:

Buchanan - 1 goal
Wisdom - 2
Clarke - 2
Byrne - 1
Shinnie - 3
Bielik - 3
Jozwiak - 5
Knight - 6
Waghorn - 7
CKR - 10

So all in, that team in a 4-2-3-1 will offer me 40 goals. That’s relegation or close to it. Put Lawrence or Sibley in and then just reduce the goal output from the others above and so on.

I like Rooney but this bubble will burst soon of defensive solidarity and we don’t have players to score goals.
 

Its a huge transfer window but we don’t have the players to persist 4-2-3-1 going forward.

 

Great to see someone else spot it.

I’d personally play Jozwiak off CKR - see him as a striker myself 

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rammieib

rammieib

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Great to see someone else spot it.

I’d personally play Jozwiak off CKR - see him as a striker myself 

I think Knight is a box to box and we don’t play him like that. He’s not been played like that since he came into the team. 

I just think at 4-2-3-1 we need better goal scoring output from the player behind the striker, RW and attack. 

I think Jozwiak is a brilliant player hampered by poor attacking players around him. I’d have him on the left cutting in and his ability to get through challenges with the ball is immense. His end product is still week but just not helped by those around him.

4-3-3 with the players we have for me and give Knight that box to box role. He needs to just study Bryson videos all day long.

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