The Marriott Problem - Is there one?

[Steve How Hard?]

He's not as good as the Wardrobe though, is he? ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously though, it's a crying shame that we're not getting the best out of him. You just know that once/if he moves on that he'll start banging them in. 

[Mostyn6]

It’s for this very reason, I have doubts about Cocu. Whilst he may have right philosophy about developing youth talent, we are supposed to have continuity on playing style. 
 

My opinion is that Marriott is a 30 goal-a-season player at this level if you put the ball in front of him facing goal. 
 

It disturbs me that we appear to he asking Marriott to change his game to adapt to a team that doesn’t attack or score, when we should be be adapting the team to provide him chances to score 30 gls! 

[AndyinLiverpool]

Isn't he joint top scorer?

[Spanish]

5 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

It’s for this very reason, I have doubts about Cocu. Whilst he may have right philosophy about developing youth talent, we are supposed to have continuity on playing style. 
 

My opinion is that Marriott is a 30 goal-a-season player at this level if you put the ball in front of him facing goal. 
 

It disturbs me that we appear to he asking Marriott to change his game to adapt to a team that doesn’t attack or score, when we should be be adapting the team to provide him chances to score 30 gls! 

I feel that this is the Derby way, buy a player because he is in form and then change him to pay differently then wonder why it isn't working.  I agree actually with what most posters are saying that with the ball in front of him he is/was mustard. 

Something more than the playing style is wrong though.  Early on he didn't need to look, take it on his stride and bash, goal.  Now there have been examples that he has no idea where the goal is. Remembering when Rooney had a go at him when he was 1 on 1 and tried to chip abysmally, there are many more examples.  I thought he had that star quality but that has disappeared, not sure now whether he will get anywhere near his potential playing for us.  He will probably go elsewhere and achieve the 30 goal a season mark

[Rammeister]

2 hours ago, Carnero said:

Offer him to Brizzle as a swap for Diedhiou (or he who shall not be named...)

Nahki Wells?

[cheron85]

18 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

It’s for this very reason, I have doubts about Cocu. Whilst he may have right philosophy about developing youth talent, we are supposed to have continuity on playing style. 

My opinion is that Marriott is a 30 goal-a-season player at this level if you put the ball in front of him facing goal.

It disturbs me that we appear to he asking Marriott to change his game to adapt to a team that doesn’t attack or score, when we should be be adapting the team to provide him chances to score 30 gls! 

This is part of the reason I wanted to start the debate

I like Marriott but I'm not convinced he's good enough to build the whole team around (although I could be wrong) - I think we have better players in other areas of the pitch which Cocu seems to be trying to build his team around - And part of what he requires from almost every player is flexibility which Marriott doesn't seem to have

For me, Marriott would be ideal against teams who play a high line - It's just that not many teams play a high line against us

5 minutes ago, Spanish said:

I feel that this is the Derby way, buy a player because he is in form and then change him to pay differently then wonder why it isn't working.  I agree actually with what most posters are saying that with the ball in front of him he is/was mustard. 

I think that's a little unfair - Most of the time that's been because one manager has bought a player and the next inherits them but wants to play a different way

[Spanish]

Just now, cheron85 said:

 

I think that's a little unfair - Most of the time that's been because one manager has bought a player and the next inherits them but wants to play a different way

I do have a sense that this has been a repetitive theme bit maybe I'm wrong. 

Don't new managers check up on their new squads to see what works best or do they just ignore that and hope they all adjust.  Under FPP that's the road to ruin.  Get nothing from the player then have to sell him on the cheap/free because his recent record is poor.  No excuse for that type of management these days

[Rammeister]

29 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

It’s for this very reason, I have doubts about Cocu. Whilst he may have right philosophy about developing youth talent, we are supposed to have continuity on playing style. 
 

My opinion is that Marriott is a 30 goal-a-season player at this level if you put the ball in front of him facing goal. 
 

It disturbs me that we appear to he asking Marriott to change his game to adapt to a team that doesn’t attack or score, when we should be be adapting the team to provide him chances to score 30 gls! 

Spot on.

I’d also add that like most strikers he is a confidence player. Confidence needs to be high to attempt and put away chances impulsively. To me, he looks frustrated there lacking some confidence for the reasons @Mostyn6 suggests.

I really rate him, but we do need to use him better.

[Rambalin]

Bobby Davison, Phil Gee, Dean Saunders, Jack Marriott name which ever you want with a midfield behind them that sees their runs and them telling them where they want the ball that shuns the pass and turns back and plays square safe balls.... Non would score many. 

 

[Mostyn6]

8 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

This is part of the reason I wanted to start the debate

I like Marriott but I'm not convinced he's good enough to build the whole team around (although I could be wrong) - I think we have better players in other areas of the pitch which Cocu seems to be trying to build his team around - And part of what he requires from almost every player is flexibility which Marriott doesn't seem to have

My answer would be that you don’t build the team around Marriott, you build your team around Marriott’s style and pace. There isn’t a team get out of this league (upwards) without pace in the attacking third. 
 

For me, you base the play on a striker running onto a ball. 
 

Flexibility is only needed for a Plan B, you only need a Plan B when Plan A isn’t working. Solution? Make your Plan A brilliant. ??‍♂️ 

[i-Ram]

Someone once suggested Mariott was a Dud. Don’t see him on here now, but you know I think he was right. Get a decent offer in the next week or so we should sell.

[cheron85]

13 minutes ago, Spanish said:

I do have a sense that this has been a repetitive theme bit maybe I'm wrong. 

Don't new managers check up on their new squads to see what works best or do they just ignore that and hope they all adjust.  Under FPP that's the road to ruin.  Get nothing from the player then have to sell him on the cheap/free because his recent record is poor.  No excuse for that type of management these days

Well yes - But in recent times (and with any side who has such frequent changes in manager) you end up with 2/3 players picked by each manager to do something a bit different 

I don't think any manager arriving anywhere will get the best out of every single player - And Marriott is definitely one of those who (it seems) has not been prioritised and (it seems) is struggling to adapt 

6 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

My answer would be that you don’t build the team around Marriott, you build your team around Marriott’s style and pace. There isn’t a team get out of this league (upwards) without pace in the attacking third. 

For me, you base the play on a striker running onto a ball. 

Flexibility is only needed for a Plan B, you only need a Plan B when Plan A isn’t working. Solution? Make your Plan A brilliant. ??‍♂️ 

I don't understand how those are different so I'm gonna need more explanation - If you build the rest of the team around Marriott's style then surely that is building the team around Marriott?

Flexibility is needed by a squad to play multiple formations - But it's also needed by an individual to adapt across a career to different teams/ways of playing - If Marriott can only play one style of football isn't that a problem he needs to address as much as anything else?

[Mostyn6]

@cheron85 read whole post. I clarify in second paragraph ?

[LeedsCityRam]

3 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

He's useless if we're going to play everything in front of the opposition back line. If we start threading the ball through for him to run on to, he will thrive. We have done this in some games and he's shown how dangerous he can be. I remember at home against Barnsley he had chance after chance.

Definitely a valid point. Remember in the Cup game against Barrow, he kept pointing & then making runs behind the back 4 - he was ignored every time as the ball just went back sideways & ended up not making those runs.

Whilst he's shown glimpses of real promise, the reality is we only have his 3 month spell between October & December 2018 as evidence of the player we know he can be. After the turn of the New Year, he seemed to have some sort of fall out with Lampard & wasn't starting as regularly. When he has played, he's been far from prolific although I would accept the service hasn't exactly been over-abundant. The game v Barnsley you quote though saw him miss plenty of chances & get a rollocking from Rooney for being too casual - he should have had 4 that day. 

For Marriott to be effective, we either need to be an excellent counter attacking team or play with 2 up top - I don't believe we're going to be either under the current set up. I would definitely sell him if the right offer came in.

[jono]

4 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

He's better suited to playing as part of a front 2. Remember how poor Vydra was when he was used as a target man? Same with Marriott. I think he's a really good player who doesn't fit our current system.

He has to hope that either we change system, or he can thrive as part of a 'plan b' formation. Maybe he should try to become a bit more versatile. Surely he could function as a #10 or a wide attacker? Waghorn is always in the squad, even if he isn't playing as the striker.

You’re right . Vydra did adapt. He was isolated up front but started dropping deeper to get the ball as the midfield were being very conservative. .. I think though there is a chance that Lawrence playing 10 would help Marriott a lot .. hummm 

[Jubbs]

Think as well as style of play, it's a confidence thing with Marriott.

With Vydra, he was being played on the wing and as a lone striker before Rowett. Whereas under Rowett, he played behind Nugent/Jerome and was prolific from there. Under Watford he played in a 2 with Deeney and again, thrived.

[cheron85]

43 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

@cheron85 read whole post. I clarify in second paragraph ?

Do you?

You've said you'd change the style of play - To one that happens to suit Marriott - Isn't that just the same thing as building a style/team around Marriott?

 

I fully understand that you're saying you don't like the way Cocu wants us to play - But that's the inherent question of this thread - Does Marriott work in this system? Can he adapt to it? Or is his game time going to be severely limited?

 

[MuespachRam]

The problem with him...maybe It is just that he isn’t actually that good..?

[BOB BIGGS]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Someone once suggested Mariott was a Dud. Don’t see him on here now, but you know I think he was right. Get a decent offer in the next week or so we should sell.

I thought we’d got a gem at first. Not so sure now but many folks seem to think he’d be a star given the right supply. Must be worth a lot of money if we were to sell?

[Rammy03]

39 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

The problem with him...maybe It is just that he isn’t actually that good..?

We'll make that judgement when the team actually start creating chances