Tribunal Update

[Brammie Steve]

I feel like I've just returned from another planet.

How is an obviously intellectual discussion about the realative merits of sandwiches versus kebabs in any conceivable way connected to the machinations of the EFL tribunal?

[RandomAccessMemory]

First of all, apologies for the Sun link, I know some won't like it.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12413633/efl-relegate-wednesday-bungled-charlton/

Looks like the written decision for Sheffield Wednesday is due out on Monday (I'm guessing the tomorrow means Monday as this is Sundays article). That should make interesting reading.

Some snippets of the article

Quote

THE EFL wanted to relegate Sheffield Wednesday — but bungled how they handled the case.

Quote

It [The IDC] went against the EFL’s push for a full 12 points to be stripped from Wednesday for going £18million above their limit during a three-year period.

Quote

Instead the IDC panel let off the Owls because the EFL took too long to bring charges — as well as pursuing the wrong case first.

Quote

Football chiefs also revealed they planned to dock points from Derby if they are found guilty of a similar offence and apply that penalty next season too.

Quote

The inconsistency in the EFL’s punishments has also been hammered in the report, which will be published tomorrow.

The commission felt the eventual Wednesday hearing was held so late, it would have been unfair to dock them points this season.

I think the second quote means it went against them wanting it deducted from the season just gone and not next season, so the inconsistency is they wanted any potential deduction for us to come off next season as it wouldn't hurt us last season.

[FindernRam]

Possibly reading too much into a Sun piece of grammar: They "planned", past tense to deduct points.

Does that mean they know we are innocent so have given up?

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 minute ago, FindernRam said:

Possibly reading too much into a Sun piece of grammar: They "planned", past tense to deduct points.

Does that mean they know we are innocent so have given up?

I assumed that was referring to their submission to the panel.

But given that we haven't been found guilty of anything yet I further assumed that there was a bit missing...ie they planned, if we were found guilty, to dock us points this season. 

[FindernRam]

@lagavulinram oh man! you just reminded me of a magical tour round the distillery many years ago and that I have a bottle of 16 year old malt tucked away for a special occasion. When we are exonerated I think I may just crack it open and have a snifter.

[RadioactiveWaste]

20 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I assumed that was referring to their submission to the panel.

But given that we haven't been found guilty of anything yet I further assumed that there was a bit missing...ie they planned, if we were found guilty, to dock us points this season. 

Everyone outside of the panel (yet to decide) and DCFC thinks we're guilty. But grammar in newspapers is generally very poor.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Been said numerous times already but the time this farce is taking is nothing short of scandalous. Is there no way the club can complain about this? Disgraceful doesn't come close. 

[hintonsboots]

We’re now heading for a 100 pages before an announcement is made. It’s a painful experience, like watching Geoff Boycott compile a century.

[richinspain]

8 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

We’re now heading for a 100 pages before an announcement is made. It’s a painful experience, like watching Geoff Boycott compile a century.

A in his pomp Boycott, or a current one?

[RadioactiveWaste]

8 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

We’re now heading for a 100 pages before an announcement is made. It’s a painful experience, like listening Geoff Boycott talking about cricket.

FTFY

[Reggie Greenwood]

13 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

We’re now heading for a 100 pages before an announcement is made. It’s a painful experience, like watching Geoff Boycott compile a century.

Or even worse Chris Tavarè 

[Chester40]

4 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

FTFY

I love listening to Geoff. Really good analyst. 

[GboroRam]

31 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

We’re now heading for a 100 pages before an announcement is made. It’s a painful experience, like watching Geoff Boycott talking about mysogyny.

FTFY

[RandomAccessMemory]

45 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Possibly reading too much into a Sun piece of grammar: They "planned", past tense to deduct points.

Does that mean they know we are innocent so have given up?

I know what you mean, not sure we can read too much into it though unfortunately. I do find it interesting that this seems to have come from the SW report though, so the EFL told the SW IDC what they had planned to do to us!

Few Nixon tweets from this morning

The timing thing is very interesting as it mentions that it should have been applied for the 2018/19 season, as Birmingham's for a breach in the same time period was.

Quote

The report said the penalty for the first breach should have been imposed before the end of the 2018-19 season. However, that would not have sent the club down in that campaign — so the EFL went after them in the season just ended.

If that is saying the EFL knew they should have punished them then but didn't as it wouldn't hurt them, as opposed to the IDC saying a breach for that 3 years should have been applied in that season, why (going back to that March 2019 EFL statement) did they say no team other than Birmingham had failed?! If they were £18m over the limit for that 3 year period as the article says, it's not like it wasn't going to be obvious!

Also, "first breach" in the quote above? Does that mean they've not accepted their ground sale for the correct year, or at least not accepted it at £60m, so they've breached it again for the next period? Very curious, I really can't wait to read this report.

[Tamworthram]

30 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

We’re now heading for a 100 pages before an announcement is made. It’s a painful experience, like watching Geoff Boycott compile a century.

A way to go yet. Owls talk got past page 600 before they received their verdict.

[Heisenberg]

 

[Andrew3000]

Crikey. Some of our players will not tolerate a pints reduction.

[RandomAccessMemory]

18 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

 

Doesn't sound as though Nixon is as confident as Martyn Ziegler that the "noises don't sound good" for us then, with that IF. Let's hope Nixon is the one on the right lines.

[Duchess]

Owls fan in peace.

With regards to our situation, based on this report the time line appears to be:
 
Should have punished club in 2018/19 but EFL chose to purposely wait because 12 points then wouldn't have relegated us.
 
Last year we were doing well in the league so instead of simply going for FFP punishment they went for 21points and made additional charges against individual directors.
 
When directors charges were dropped it messed up plan so didn't chase it as we were heading for good league position (we were third at Xmas) so again 12points wouldn't have got what they wanted.
 
After Xmas our form fell off a cliff and we fell like a stone they expedited the hearing to June to send us down with 12points.
 
Report will be interesting to read at least and sounds like EFL were indeed after making an example out of SWFC and were only interested in send club to league 1.

Nixon seems to be hinting that if found guilty you would be in a similar position in that the EFL are picking and choosing when to apply the points deduction that would apply as they don’t deem it severe enough and want to relegate both clubs. How the EFL can decide when to apply their own rules and when not to based purely on a desire to have maximum impact on a club is very questionable to say the least. At the end of the day the deductions for such breaches are set out in the rules and what affect that has on a clubs season shouldn’t come into it.

This would surely add weight to any appeal by ourselves and should you be found guilty any Derby appeal as well.

[RadioactiveWaste]

6 minutes ago, Duchess said:

Owls fan in peace.

With regards to our situation, based on this report the time line appears to be:
 
Should have punished club in 2018/19 but EFL chose to purposely wait because 12 points then wouldn't have relegated us.
 
Last year we were doing well in the league so instead of simply going for FFP punishment they went for 21points and made additional charges against individual directors.
 
When directors charges were dropped it messed up plan so didn't chase it as we were heading for good league position (we were third at Xmas) so again 12points wouldn't have got what they wanted.
 
After Xmas our form fell off a cliff and we fell like a stone they expedited the hearing to June to send us down with 12points.
 
Report will be interesting to read at least and sounds like EFL were indeed after making an example out of SWFC and were only interested in send club to league 1.

Nixon seems to be hinting that if found guilty you would be in a similar position in that the EFL are picking and choosing when to apply the points deduction that would apply as they don’t deem it severe enough and want to relegate both clubs. How the EFL can decide when to apply their own rules and when not to based purely on a desire to have maximum impact on a club is very questionable to say the least. At the end of the day the deductions for such breaches are set out in the rules and what affect that has on a clubs season shouldn’t come into it.

This would surely add weight to any appeal by ourselves and should you be found guilty any Derby appeal as well.

I think we all share the sentiment that the EFL have been initially incompetent and subsequently disgraceful in their enforcement of FFP (P&S) and their pursuit of Wednesday and DCFC - even commentators outside who may believe both our clubs have violated the rules and deserve sanctions seem to agree the entire affair has been handled abysmally.