Live football thread.

[Ramrob]

15 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Not sure which is worse at the moment, England's football, cricket or rugby team.......cricket me'thinks 

27 for 3 ?‍♂️ 
 

I know the new ball is more difficult but you’d think we’d learn from our mistakes a bit. 

Would love to know how often we’ve been 30 for 3 in test innings over the last few years. 

[DCFC Kicks]

On 25/03/2022 at 08:27, TigerTedd said:

Just makes me more annoyed that we couldn’t beat them, to be honest. If north Macedonia can beat them, why is it on that day, at that time, in that place, we managed to somehow not beat them. 

Because Southgate isn't actually a good manager.

[Millenniumram]

17 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

Not sure which is worse at the moment, England's football, cricket or rugby team.......cricket me'thinks 

Can’t say I watch cricket or rugby, but I can tell you one thing for sure… it ain’t the football team. This is the best England have been since 1966, not even up for debate in my view. God knows why people can’t just enjoy us actually being good.

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

Can’t say I watch cricket or rugby, but I can tell you one thing for sure… it ain’t the football team. This is the best England have been since 1966, not even up for debate in my view. God knows why people can’t just enjoy us actually being good.

The rugby team is "competent but dull" but the test cricket team is 90s nostalgia tour (well, it is for the windies)

[cannable]

17 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Because Southgate isn't actually a good manager.

He’s exactly what you want from an international manager.

Spain couldn’t beat them either and they have a treble winning manager…

[DCFC Kicks]

1 hour ago, cannable said:

He’s exactly what you want from an international manager.

Spain couldn’t beat them either and they have a treble winning manager…

He's good at everything other than the actual tactics on the pitch. The luckiest England manager of all time in terms of the opposition we've faced the last two tournaments. 

Spain had a bad tournament (including a COVID outbreak), and Italy still only drew with them. Spain also drew with Poland, Sweden and Switzerland, which shows the level Italy were at.

 

[TigerTedd]

3 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

He's good at everything other than the actual tactics on the pitch. The luckiest England manager of all time in terms of the opposition we've faced the last two tournaments. 

Spain had a bad tournament (including a COVID outbreak), and Italy still only drew with them. Spain also drew with Poland, Sweden and Switzerland, which shows the level Italy were at.

 

They also only drew with us to be fair. Draw specialists. 

[Chris_Martin]

On 27/03/2022 at 16:01, DCFC Kicks said:

He's good at everything other than the actual tactics on the pitch. The luckiest England manager of all time in terms of the opposition we've faced the last two tournaments. 

 

 

hardly his fault the draw was a bit easier. 

[DCFC Kicks]

2 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

hardly his fault the draw was a bit easier. 

that's completely irrelevant 

[Chris_Martin]

2 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

that's completely irrelevant 

so why did you make the point then...

[TigerTedd]

Highlights of that Wrexham vs Dover game. 

Check out the shot onto the bar by Wrexham!

[DCFC Kicks]

8 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

so why did you make the point then...

I didn't, you seemed to make a general point about how people can't control luck. What's that got to with whether Southgate's luck is making him appear to be a better manager than he is?

England happen to find Italy in the quarter finals at Euro 2012 and lose on penalties and it's deemed to be a bad tournament and Capello should be sacked.

England happen to find Italy in the final at Euro 2020 and lose on penalties but it's deemed a good tournament and Southgate is great.

Both managers in both tournaments won all the games they were expected to (Capello also drew to France), and lost to Italy on pens. 

the only good victory Southgate has had in two tournaments is over Germany, and they weren't even that good at the time.

[AndyinLiverpool]

52 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Highlights of that Wrexham vs Dover game. 

Check out the shot onto the bar by Wrexham!

Watching the highlights, I'm surprised there weren't more goals.

[TigerTedd]

52 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I didn't, you seemed to make a general point about how people can't control luck. What's that got to with whether Southgate's luck is making him appear to be a better manager than he is?

England happen to find Italy in the quarter finals at Euro 2012 and lose on penalties and it's deemed to be a bad tournament and Capello should be sacked.

England happen to find Italy in the final at Euro 2020 and lose on penalties but it's deemed a good tournament and Southgate is great.

Both managers in both tournaments won all the games they were expected to (Capello also drew to France), and lost to Italy on pens. 

the only good victory Southgate has had in two tournaments is over Germany, and they weren't even that good at the time.

It annoys me when southgate doesn’t get his credit and it’s dismissed as a lucky draw, 3 tournaments in a row (don’t forget we got 3rd place in the nations league, trouncing Spain along the way). He’s had some imperfect matches, and I’m not sure he’d be a very good club coach, but I think he’s a perfect international coach for this time and place. He’s doing a good job of being players through the youth teams, and he’s created a great unity amongst the squad. You get such little time with the players at international level, it’s a different job entirely to being a club coach. You don’t have so much time to spend on tactics and training, there’s a different skill set involved, and I think Southgate has that skill set. You have to give the players fairly simple tactics that they can all get on board with pretty quickly.

But I do totally agree with your point that you can get an unlucky draw. If they eventual winners are going to be Brazil, for example, and you draw them in the round of 16, you’re buggered. You may well be the second best team in the tournament, you just happened to meet the best team early on, and it seems like a total failure.

so going out to Iceland in the round of 16 is fairly unforgivable. But going out to Brazil in the quarter finals, is just unfortunate.

but at the euros, we were a damn good side that was a match for anyone we came across (apart from Scotland apparently). Italy didn’t beat us, the game was a draw. And but for a couple of penalties, we would have won that tournament. I don’t know what’s happened to Italy since that game, but in that tournament, they were clearly very good.

england are getting better and better, and I genuinely think that this is our time. Not necessarily because of Southgate. Maybe any captain could steer this ship at this point, because we have spent a good few years putting in some very good foundations (which Southgate was also a part of). There has been some very good investments in youth development to put us on a par with where Germany and Spain were a few years ago.

We will win something in the next few years. And I’m fairly convinced that this will be a catalyst to put us there or there abouts for years to come. On a level with the likes of Germany, Spain, Italy, Brazil and Argentina (who, but for the occasional blip, or always at the business end of tournaments).

we weren’t at that level, we never have been. 66 was the exception, not the rule. There’s a reason why pretty much every other World Cup winner has won it on multiple occasions, and we’re the only team that has only won it once. But I think we’re there now. I think our kids will accept that we can mix it with Germany, Spain and Brazil, finals and semi finals will become the norm, and anything less will seem like a weird year, and this perpetual status of also ran, nearly men, losers will eventually fade away. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

10 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

It annoys me when southgate doesn’t get his credit and it’s dismissed as a lucky draw, 3 tournaments in a row (don’t forget we got 3rd place in the nations league, trouncing Spain along the way). He’s had some imperfect matches, and I’m not sure he’d be a very good club coach, but I think he’s a perfect international coach for this time and place. He’s doing a good job of being players through the youth teams, and he’s created a great unity amongst the squad. You get such little time with the players at international level, it’s a different job entirely to being a club coach. You don’t have so much time to spend on tactics and training, there’s a different skill set involved, and I think Southgate has that skill set. You have to give the players fairly simple tactics that they can all get on board with pretty quickly.

But I do totally agree with your point that you can get an unlucky draw. If they eventual winners are going to be Brazil, for example, and you draw them in the round of 16, you’re buggered. You may well be the second best team in the tournament, you just happened to meet the best team early on, and it seems like a total failure.

so going out to Iceland in the round of 16 is fairly unforgivable. But going out to Brazil in the quarter finals, is just unfortunate.

but at the euros, we were a damn good side that was a match for anyone we came across (apart from Scotland apparently). Italy didn’t beat us, the game was a draw. And but for a couple of penalties, we would have won that tournament. I don’t know what’s happened to Italy since that game, but in that tournament, they were clearly very good.

england are getting better and better, and I genuinely think that this is our time. Not necessarily because of Southgate. Maybe any captain could steer this ship at this point, because we have spent a good few years putting in some very good foundations (which Southgate was also a part of). There has been some very good investments in youth development to put us on a par with where Germany and Spain were a few years ago.

We will win something in the next few years. And I’m fairly convinced that this will be a catalyst to put us there or there abouts for years to come. On a level with the likes of Germany, Spain, Italy, Brazil and Argentina (who, but for the occasional blip, or always at the business end of tournaments).

we weren’t at that level, we never have been. 66 was the exception, not the rule. There’s a reason why pretty much every other World Cup winner has won it on multiple occasions, and we’re the only team that has only won it once. But I think we’re there now. I think our kids will accept that we can mix it with Germany, Spain and Brazil, finals and semi finals will become the norm, and anything less will seem like a weird year, and this perpetual status of also ran, nearly men, losers will eventually fade away. 

This.

The impact Southgate has had on the culture within and surrounding the national team is nothing short of exceptional. It's already paying dividends and there's a chance it will lead to the ultimate glory, whether that's with him or without him.

Edited March 29, 2022 by DarkFruitsRam7

[Chris_Martin]

3 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

 

England happen to find Italy in the quarter finals at Euro 2012 and lose on penalties and it's deemed to be a bad tournament and Capello should be sacked.

England happen to find Italy in the final at Euro 2020 and lose on penalties but it's deemed a good tournament and Southgate is great.

 

well we did make it to the final so i would say that's good.

You can't compare 2012 and 2020 though, different generation. 

[Chris_Martin]

8 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I didn't, you seemed to make a general point about how people can't control luck. What's that got to with whether Southgate's luck is making him appear to be a better manager than he is?

England happen to find Italy in the quarter finals at Euro 2012 and lose on penalties and it's deemed to be a bad tournament and Capello should be sacked.

England happen to find Italy in the final at Euro 2020 and lose on penalties but it's deemed a good tournament and Southgate is great.

Both managers in both tournaments won all the games they were expected to (Capello also drew to France), and lost to Italy on pens. 

the only good victory Southgate has had in two tournaments is over Germany, and they weren't even that good at the time.

 

On 27/03/2022 at 16:01, DCFC Kicks said:

He's good at everything other than the actual tactics on the pitch. The luckiest England manager of all time in terms of the opposition we've faced the last two tournaments. 

 

[DCFC Kicks]

3 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

 

 

 

On 27/03/2022 at 16:01, DCFC Kicks said:

He's good at everything other than the actual tactics on the pitch. The luckiest England manager of all time in terms of the opposition we've faced the last two tournaments. 

 

19 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

hardly his fault the draw was a bit easier. 

It was a different point. you just saying its not his fault he was lucky doesn't address my point that him being lucky is why people think he's good.

[DCFC Kicks]

10 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

It annoys me when southgate doesn’t get his credit and it’s dismissed as a lucky draw, 3 tournaments in a row (don’t forget we got 3rd place in the nations league, trouncing Spain along the way). He’s had some imperfect matches, and I’m not sure he’d be a very good club coach, but I think he’s a perfect international coach for this time and place. He’s doing a good job of being players through the youth teams, and he’s created a great unity amongst the squad. You get such little time with the players at international level, it’s a different job entirely to being a club coach. You don’t have so much time to spend on tactics and training, there’s a different skill set involved, and I think Southgate has that skill set. You have to give the players fairly simple tactics that they can all get on board with pretty quickly.

But I do totally agree with your point that you can get an unlucky draw. If they eventual winners are going to be Brazil, for example, and you draw them in the round of 16, you’re buggered. You may well be the second best team in the tournament, you just happened to meet the best team early on, and it seems like a total failure.

so going out to Iceland in the round of 16 is fairly unforgivable. But going out to Brazil in the quarter finals, is just unfortunate.

but at the euros, we were a damn good side that was a match for anyone we came across (apart from Scotland apparently). Italy didn’t beat us, the game was a draw. And but for a couple of penalties, we would have won that tournament. I don’t know what’s happened to Italy since that game, but in that tournament, they were clearly very good.

england are getting better and better, and I genuinely think that this is our time. Not necessarily because of Southgate. Maybe any captain could steer this ship at this point, because we have spent a good few years putting in some very good foundations (which Southgate was also a part of). There has been some very good investments in youth development to put us on a par with where Germany and Spain were a few years ago.

We will win something in the next few years. And I’m fairly convinced that this will be a catalyst to put us there or there abouts for years to come. On a level with the likes of Germany, Spain, Italy, Brazil and Argentina (who, but for the occasional blip, or always at the business end of tournaments).

we weren’t at that level, we never have been. 66 was the exception, not the rule. There’s a reason why pretty much every other World Cup winner has won it on multiple occasions, and we’re the only team that has only won it once. But I think we’re there now. I think our kids will accept that we can mix it with Germany, Spain and Brazil, finals and semi finals will become the norm, and anything less will seem like a weird year, and this perpetual status of also ran, nearly men, losers will eventually fade away. 

Southgate is great at the diplomatic/corporate side. I know international football isn't as tactically detailed as club football but I still think he's quite poor and dated tactically. In both the Croatia and Italy games we took an early lead, the opposition manager changed things, and Southgate had no response. The players he picks are often one dimensional and he doesn't seem to know how to use more intricate players such as Grealish. 

You say we were good at the Euros, but if you look game by game, in the World Cup as well, you'd expect us to win every one we did, with Germany being to one possible exception.  

Can you honestly say your opinion of Capello would be the same if we happen to have met Italy in the final instead of the RO16 at Euro 2012, or we happen to have met Germany in the semi-finals instead of the RO16 at the 2010 WC (or goal-line technology existed)?

[Bris Vegas]

13 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Southgate is great at the diplomatic/corporate side. I know international football isn't as tactically detailed as club football but I still think he's quite poor and dated tactically. In both the Croatia and Italy games we took an early lead, the opposition manager changed things, and Southgate had no response. The players he picks are often one dimensional and he doesn't seem to know how to use more intricate players such as Grealish. 

You say we were good at the Euros, but if you look game by game, in the World Cup as well, you'd expect us to win every one we did, with Germany being to one possible exception.  

Can you honestly say your opinion of Capello would be the same if we happen to have met Italy in the final instead of the RO16 at Euro 2012, or we happen to have met Germany in the semi-finals instead of the RO16 at the 2010 WC (or goal-line technology existed)?

Wasn’t Hodgson in charge in 2012?

I think this is the best and most united England squad we’ve had in my lifetime. Gareth Southgate has played a major role in that.

Having said all that, with the fixtures played, I don’t think Southgate has achieved any more than what Sven did. We had some good wins under Sven (Germany, Argentina) then lost when we came up against a decent side (Brazil, Portugal). Southgate has been the same, except I feel the Croatia defeat and losing at home to Italy were bigger disappointments than the two defeats to Portugal on penalties.

Facts will state that under Southgate we have gotten further than all of his predecessors. But facts will also state that under Southgate we have yet to beat a genuine contender in competition football.

I think this England side needs to beat a Spain, Belgium, France or Brazil to really believe they can win a major trophy.