Coronavirus

[rynny]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

No different imo if we had gone into lockdown or not. They make zero difference 

we have to get the R number down : ✅ 

we have to protect the NHS from not being overwhelmed: ✅ 

yet we’re still locked up and stuck in Tier 3 absolute ******** all of it.

Mainly because the this "lockdown" was an half arsed attempt of the previous lockdown that was half arsed. 

[Gone]

Just now, rynny said:

Mainly because the this "lockdown" was an half arsed attempt of the previous lockdown that was half arsed. 

That’s actually very true

[Spanish]

4 minutes ago, rynny said:

Mainly because the this "lockdown" was an half arsed attempt of the previous lockdown that was half arsed. 

quarter arsed?

[WhiteHorseRam]

8 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I don't understand the hate that London gets. Certainly not the envy.

The centre of London is a very exciting place but the suburbs are dull dumps in the main, then you get to the outer areas and they are affluent (Surrey et al).

I was born in London and worked there for 20 yrs. I love it, but when its a hot day and the pigeons are eating sick and the Tube stinks it ain't that great.

My brother lives there full time and he earns tons of money - but it goes straight out again on his vast mortgage and travel etc etc.

Many of the worst dumps are darn sarf - Luton, Slough and Southend leap to mind.

Every area of the UK has an upside or a downside. Just enjoy the good bits you have around you.

[Andicis]

5 hours ago, Albert said:

The virus being uncontrolled will tank the economy further, and do a lot of long term damage.

Would you say Sweden or the USA have been heavy on controlling the virus? In the Western world, there is a clear link with countries that locked down heavily, and countries that now suffered the worst GDP retractions. I think the economy being open would cause it to tank a lot less than shutting everything down and putting people on furlough. 

[rynny]

27 minutes ago, Spanish said:

quarter arsed?

Sounds good to me. 

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, TexasRam said:

I’m dying for someone to tell me what the last lockdown has done for the country? Areas come out of lockdown with higher rates than going in. Now most are in a worst position than before the lockdown. Seems a complete waste of time to me.

The 2 week 'fire breaker' worked so well in Wales that they are going to have another one before Xmas just to showcase how great they are!

[Angry Ram]

From weeks of sitting on the fence and reading (with interest) the various view points on here. I’m now firmly in the lockdown is a waste of time camp. That’s not to say I’m against lockdown (bear with me) but half or quarter arsed attempts are just a waste of time and money. This continual attempt to try and make everyone happy is bollx. We are a small geographical country. People move freely from area to area without much thought. We either lockdown fully, including borders, or we don’t, just what does lockdown achieve?

Our debt is now ridiculous. The stats, as shown on here, can say whatever you want the to. Both can be equally convincing. I’m no expert on epidemiology, so stay out of most of it. However I can see with my own eyes that these lockdowns are achieving  very little. They may reduce infections to a small degree but for me now the social and financial coat is too high. I dunno that may make me a ‘granny killer’, well that tag may well be true. I am an easy target for these labels just like racist because I come from the right on most discussions. Hay ho, I am not that bothered with glib tags. I will protect mine as much as possible by continuing to do the sensible things but this country is dying all around us. Arcadia Group now a probable casualty. 15,000 jobs potentially.

Ffs as much as we all want to protect everyone, it’s not possible unless we all just stay indoors. 

Boris is headless now. I am sure whoever was in charge would struggle to survive this but for god sake grow a pair fella. 

[Archied]

28 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

From weeks of sitting on the fence and reading (with interest) the various view points on here. I’m now firmly in the lockdown is a waste of time camp. That’s not to say I’m against lockdown (bear with me) but half or quarter arsed attempts are just a waste of time and money. This continual attempt to try and make everyone happy is bollx. We are a small geographical country. People move freely from area to area without much thought. We either lockdown fully, including borders, or we don’t, just what does lockdown achieve?

Our debt is now ridiculous. The stats, as shown on here, can say whatever you want the to. Both can be equally convincing. I’m no expert on epidemiology, so stay out of most of it. However I can see with my own eyes that these lockdowns are achieving  very little. They may reduce infections to a small degree but for me now the social and financial coat is too high. I dunno that may make me a ‘granny killer’, well that tag may well be true. I am an easy target for these labels just like racist because I come from the right on most discussions. Hay ho, I am not that bothered with glib tags. I will protect mine as much as possible by continuing to do the sensible things but this country is dying all around us. Arcadia Group now a probable casualty. 15,000 jobs potentially.

Ffs as much as we all want to protect everyone, it’s not possible unless we all just stay indoors. 

Boris is headless now. I am sure whoever was in charge would struggle to survive this but for god sake grow a pair fella. 

I come from the left on most issues , makes not a jot of difference ,when you disagree on draconian measures you are bombarded and get warnings for the pleasure ??‍♂️

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

From weeks of sitting on the fence and reading (with interest) the various view points on here. I’m now firmly in the lockdown is a waste of time camp. That’s not to say I’m against lockdown (bear with me) but half or quarter arsed attempts are just a waste of time and money. This continual attempt to try and make everyone happy is bollx. We are a small geographical country. People move freely from area to area without much thought. We either lockdown fully, including borders, or we don’t, just what does lockdown achieve?

Our debt is now ridiculous. The stats, as shown on here, can say whatever you want the to. Both can be equally convincing. I’m no expert on epidemiology, so stay out of most of it. However I can see with my own eyes that these lockdowns are achieving  very little. They may reduce infections to a small degree but for me now the social and financial coat is too high. I dunno that may make me a ‘granny killer’, well that tag may well be true. I am an easy target for these labels just like racist because I come from the right on most discussions. Hay ho, I am not that bothered with glib tags. I will protect mine as much as possible by continuing to do the sensible things but this country is dying all around us. Arcadia Group now a probable casualty. 15,000 jobs potentially.

Ffs as much as we all want to protect everyone, it’s not possible unless we all just stay indoors. 

Boris is headless now. I am sure whoever was in charge would struggle to survive this but for god sake grow a pair fella. 

Vaccine rolled out in 10 days apparently so hopefully not too much longer to wait for some sort of return to normal.

We've got one of the worst death rates and one of the worst hit economies. British excepetionalism at it's freedom loving finest.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

From weeks of sitting on the fence and reading (with interest) the various view points on here. I’m now firmly in the lockdown is a waste of time camp. That’s not to say I’m against lockdown (bear with me) but half or quarter arsed attempts are just a waste of time and money. This continual attempt to try and make everyone happy is bollx. We are a small geographical country. People move freely from area to area without much thought. We either lockdown fully, including borders, or we don’t, just what does lockdown achieve?

Our debt is now ridiculous. The stats, as shown on here, can say whatever you want the to. Both can be equally convincing. I’m no expert on epidemiology, so stay out of most of it. However I can see with my own eyes that these lockdowns are achieving  very little. They may reduce infections to a small degree but for me now the social and financial coat is too high. I dunno that may make me a ‘granny killer’, well that tag may well be true. I am an easy target for these labels just like racist because I come from the right on most discussions. Hay ho, I am not that bothered with glib tags. I will protect mine as much as possible by continuing to do the sensible things but this country is dying all around us. Arcadia Group now a probable casualty. 15,000 jobs potentially.
Ffs as much as we all want to protect everyone, it’s not possible unless we all just stay indoors. 

Boris is headless now. I am sure whoever was in charge would struggle to survive this but for god sake grow a pair fella. 

Is sitting on fences allowed? I've lost track of the rules.

[Angry Ram]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Is sitting on fences allowed? I've lost track of the rules.

We shall wait for uncle Albert to confirm. 

[Gone]

6 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

We shall wait for uncle Albert to confirm. 

Don’t expect it to be a short conformation........

 

[Angry Ram]

9 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Don’t expect it to be a short conformation........

 

It will be in a multi quote reply. I might give it a miss. 

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

From weeks of sitting on the fence and reading (with interest) the various view points on here. I’m now firmly in the lockdown is a waste of time camp. That’s not to say I’m against lockdown (bear with me) but half or quarter arsed attempts are just a waste of time and money. This continual attempt to try and make everyone happy is bollx. We are a small geographical country. People move freely from area to area without much thought. We either lockdown fully, including borders, or we don’t, just what does lockdown achieve?

Our debt is now ridiculous. The stats, as shown on here, can say whatever you want the to. Both can be equally convincing. I’m no expert on epidemiology, so stay out of most of it. However I can see with my own eyes that these lockdowns are achieving  very little. They may reduce infections to a small degree but for me now the social and financial coat is too high. I dunno that may make me a ‘granny killer’, well that tag may well be true. I am an easy target for these labels just like racist because I come from the right on most discussions. Hay ho, I am not that bothered with glib tags. I will protect mine as much as possible by continuing to do the sensible things but this country is dying all around us. Arcadia Group now a probable casualty. 15,000 jobs potentially.

Ffs as much as we all want to protect everyone, it’s not possible unless we all just stay indoors. 

Boris is headless now. I am sure whoever was in charge would struggle to survive this but for god sake grow a pair fella. 

Not really Coronavirus virus related but don't be fooled into think the collapse of the Arcadia Group is down to coronavirus, it really is just the final nail in the coffin.

That crook and his family have run it into the ground whilst siphoning of large amounts to their tax haven.

Of course coupled with the fact that nobody gets off their arse to go shopping anymore.

It will be interesting to see how many people bemoaning the job losses will change their shopping habits when things return to normal.

[Gone]

2 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

It will be in a multi quote reply. I might give it a miss. 

Hats of to him, his obviously clued up on it and is one hell of a tenacious bugger. Bit boring though

[Sparkle]

Having worked in the health service for 30 plus years I can assure you the lockdowns are not pointless and are needed and as a species we need to hide from this virus because it’s sole objective is to kill you if it can, and we now seem to have viable vaccines arriving and hopefully by June we will be in a much better position than we been and we can move on with our lives and hopefully everyone will be a lot nicer to each other in the future.

 

[Archied]

8 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Having worked in the health service for 30 plus years I can assure you the lockdowns are not pointless and are needed and as a species we need to hide from this virus because it’s sole objective is to kill you if it can, and we now seem to have viable vaccines arriving and hopefully by June we will be in a much better position than we been and we can move on with our lives and hopefully everyone will be a lot nicer to each other in the future.

 

It’s a virus 99% of people are not killed by and that was when we were in the dark over best treatment of it ,seems less now ,it’s not Freddie Kruger or Jason running round with chainsaws and we’ve got to get in the wardrobe or under the bed , that talk is just over scare to stop people questioning 

[Sparkle]

18 minutes ago, Archied said:

It’s a virus 99% of people are not killed by and that was when we were in the dark over best treatment of it ,seems less now ,it’s not Freddie Kruger or Jason running round with chainsaws and we’ve got to get in the wardrobe or under the bed , that talk is just over scare to stop people questioning 

I base my viewpoint on what I see 

[Albert]

7 hours ago, TexasRam said:

I’m dying for someone to tell me what the last lockdown has done for the country? Areas come out of lockdown with higher rates than going in. Now most are in a worst position than before the lockdown. Seems a complete waste of time to me.

Weird choice to quote mine, given the point of the quote was that the WHO advises against using lockdowns as a primary strategy, which was the point. 

As to what it did: reverse the trend of new infections rising. The point of the tier system is to be an exit strategy. 

4 hours ago, Andicis said:

Would you say Sweden or the USA have been heavy on controlling the virus? In the Western world, there is a clear link with countries that locked down heavily, and countries that now suffered the worst GDP retractions. I think the economy being open would cause it to tank a lot less than shutting everything down and putting people on furlough. 

There is a strong link between being hit hard by the virus and needing to lockdown. Even Sweden is now having to go down another route, and America's problems at this point are well documented. Both examples have been hit hard economically, but the big question is what happens in the coming months. 

Equally, Sweden has still been hit harder than their neighbours on pretty much every metric. Consider Sweden (Q2: -8.3%, Q3: +4.3%) then Denmark (Q2: -6.8%, Q3: +4.9%). So this notion that being open would cause it to tank less doesn't even work on direct comparison that well. 

So the big open question on this one is what the long term consequences for countries like America and Sweden are going to be from the current choices. Unlike other points like 'can the virus be controlled', which are well and truly resolved at this point, the question of whether or not these more open (though still heavily restricted) strategies will be beneficial economically long term is still to be answered. What we do know is that the UK has managed to achieve the worst of both World in pretty much every department imaginable. 

2 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

From weeks of sitting on the fence and reading (with interest) the various view points on here. I’m now firmly in the lockdown is a waste of time camp. That’s not to say I’m against lockdown (bear with me) but half or quarter arsed attempts are just a waste of time and money. This continual attempt to try and make everyone happy is bollx. We are a small geographical country. People move freely from area to area without much thought. We either lockdown fully, including borders, or we don’t, just what does lockdown achieve?

Completely agree, the UK's bits and pieces strategies simply haven't worked. They came into this all with no plan, and cobbling one together, driven by not wanting to annoy people, simply isn't working. 

All this current lockdown, and the current strategy, are achieving is kicking the can down the road. It's worked to reduce infections, but there's no sign of a clear exist strategy. It seems the plan is just to have rolling lockdowns for the long haul now, which I'm not a fan of. 

2 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Our debt is now ridiculous. The stats, as shown on here, can say whatever you want the to. Both can be equally convincing. I’m no expert on epidemiology, so stay out of most of it. However I can see with my own eyes that these lockdowns are achieving  very little. They may reduce infections to a small degree but for me now the social and financial coat is too high. I dunno that may make me a ‘granny killer’, well that tag may well be true. I am an easy target for these labels just like racist because I come from the right on most discussions. Hay ho, I am not that bothered with glib tags. I will protect mine as much as possible by continuing to do the sensible things but this country is dying all around us. Arcadia Group now a probable casualty. 15,000 jobs potentially.

The stats can't say 'whatever you want them to', it's not how they work. I get it's one of those talking points that's been pushed by anti-academic types across the Western World, but like computers, stats show what they say on the tin. The issue is people trying to cover up what the tin says. 

The amount that the lockdown has reduced infections by is quite a lot, it's reversed the trend. The issue is that achieving this takes too much time and pain, and is only really valuable when there is an actual exist and sustainability strategy to follow. Lockdowns have consequences, and can be worthwhile when well timed, short, and with clear and effective lockdown. A late lockdown, nearly two months after the recommended circuit breaker, was always going to take considerably more time to achieve the same effect. The consequence of ignoring their own experts at that time is the current position. 

The issue now is that the social and financial costs of doing nothing are too high too. Sweden's attempt at such a strategy failed spectacularly, and they've now been forced to backtrack. The UK was forced in these lockdowns by the growth rate, and unchecked growth for much longer would have been devastating. Again though, the current strategies are still just kicking the can down the road. 

2 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Ffs as much as we all want to protect everyone, it’s not possible unless we all just stay indoors. 

Boris is headless now. I am sure whoever was in charge would struggle to survive this but for god sake grow a pair fella. 

I know this 'whoever was in charge' line is a popular one, but honestly, this is just nonsense. It's not even about sides of the political divide. Boris is arguably left of Australia's current government, but they made the decision to defer to the Chief Health Officers and their offices, and that has been a winning strategy. Arguably, that's because Australia's Prime Minister managed to tar and feather himself through the Bush Fire crisis, particularly jetting off to Hawaii on holiday at the height of it, so needed to hide behind someone else's choices though. This all said, the issue is that the UK's response allowed it to become about politics too early, and that has allowed the debate to be driven by politics through the rest. That's always a recipe for disaster.