Angry Ram Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 7 hours ago, B4ev6is said: So them lot poputaltions can go out and to fine dining places no wander london only 0n teir 2 so there things can go ahead. No you’re wrong. I can’t go to dinner with friends just people I live with. It ain’t one big party down here. Folk are struggling as much as you, maybe more. It’s not a competition, we are a nation. Cinemas have been closed here as well. Small local shops are closing, people are losing their jobs. It grinds my gears when people think it’s a easy life to live in London. People work hard just like you, people suffer, just like you. We all want this over. Most of those politicians are not in London anyway, they live all over the country, north, south, east and west. Most are not in parliament at the moment but living and working from home in whatever tier has been allocated. London is a ghost town. It’s dying as much, if not more than the rest of the country. It’s bloody expensive to live down here mate. People need to get over their envy of London, the country needs a strong capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 38 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: No you’re wrong. I can’t go to dinner with friends just people I live with. It ain’t one big party down here. Folk are struggling as much as you, maybe more. It’s not a competition, we are a nation. Cinemas have been closed here as well. Small local shops are closing, people are losing their jobs. It grinds my gears when people think it’s a easy life to live in London. People work hard just like you, people suffer, just like you. We all want this over. Most of those politicians are not in London anyway, they live all over the country, north, south, east and west. Most are not in parliament at the moment but living and working from home in whatever tier has been allocated. London is a ghost town. It’s dying as much, if not more than the rest of the country. It’s bloody expensive to live down here mate. People need to get over their envy of London, the country needs a strong capital. I don't understand the hate that London gets. Certainly not the envy. Yes you can get maybe 10 or 20% higher pay (a choice few will get more I appreciate, but it's not all of us that have that opportunity), but how much more expensive is life in London? How much is rent for, say, a 3 bedroom property? How much is a round of drinks for you and two mates? No envy from me. I think the place ain't paved with gold like we're somehow expected to think. Since moving, I'm almost in the commute belt so could look for work in London. If I wanted 2 hours per day each way on a train (once we're unlocked, obviously) for a few quid per month in the pocket - most of which, if not all, would go to the train companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Albert said: Yikes, I really don't know why @Archied keeps posting laughing reactions at discussions of people dying, suffering and losing their livelihoods. Seems pretty cruel to me. It's become a bit of a feature of this forum. It's got old quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 55 minutes ago, Archied said: Yes , it’s almost like I’m a selfish granny killer isn’t it ? No way I could be laughing at your transparency Can you explain what you mean by transparency. I presume you mean you can see what the hidden agenda is. What's the hidden agenda of everyone who feels that lockdown is probably the best of a bad bunch of choices right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Can you explain what you mean by transparency. I presume you mean you can see what the hidden agenda is. What's the hidden agenda of everyone who feels that lockdown is probably the best of a bad bunch of choices right now? Nothing hidden??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Archied said: Nothing hidden??? How can it be transparent and not hidden? Anyway, explain what you're implying as I'm still lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 19 minutes ago, GboroRam said: How can it be transparent and not hidden? Anyway, explain what you're implying as I'm still lost. Losing track of the shift work pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Archied said: Yes , it’s almost like I’m a selfish granny killer isn’t it ? No way I could be laughing at your transparency Why do you keep calling yourself a granny killer. Nobody on here has ever used that phrase, let alone called you one. Posting a laughing reaction to posts about people suffering is just bizarre, however you want to distance yourself from your choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Angry Ram said: No you’re wrong. I can’t go to dinner with friends just people I live with. It ain’t one big party down here. Folk are struggling as much as you, maybe more. It’s not a competition, we are a nation. Cinemas have been closed here as well. Small local shops are closing, people are losing their jobs. It grinds my gears when people think it’s a easy life to live in London. People work hard just like you, people suffer, just like you. We all want this over. Most of those politicians are not in London anyway, they live all over the country, north, south, east and west. Most are not in parliament at the moment but living and working from home in whatever tier has been allocated. London is a ghost town. It’s dying as much, if not more than the rest of the country. It’s bloody expensive to live down here mate. People need to get over their envy of London, the country needs a strong capital. I think by 'London', people mean the West End, Buckingham Palace, Mayfair Hyde Park and the City of London. No one really lives in these players, apart from a handful of oligarchs. Rest of London is a mix of some nice areas where property is crazy expensive, some ok areas where property is really expensive and some awful areas where property is still pricey. In all 3 areas, most people have very little expendable income. If you are a teacher/nurse/police etc then you are probably young and skint and are planning to move away. If you ever get the chance, drive down the A40 from the M25 into central London. Miles of terrible, polluted roads right next to stacks of grim housing. You'll pass Grenfell Tower too. At the very end of the journey, you'll be by Regent's Park next to an arc of incredible houses, and you can look at them and moan how Londoners are all so rich and have it easy. If there are genuine targets for jealously/dislike, outside of the Oligarchs, then they probably reside in the counties around London, isolated from the realities of Covid. And across the rest of the country too. Many of the London and City based MPs probably come from, and still live, in cities themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: I don't understand the hate that London gets. Certainly not the envy. Yes you can get maybe 10 or 20% higher pay (a choice few will get more I appreciate, but it's not all of us that have that opportunity), but how much more expensive is life in London? How much is rent for, say, a 3 bedroom property? How much is a round of drinks for you and two mates? No envy from me. I think the place ain't paved with gold like we're somehow expected to think. Since moving, I'm almost in the commute belt so could look for work in London. If I wanted 2 hours per day each way on a train (once we're unlocked, obviously) for a few quid per month in the pocket - most of which, if not all, would go to the train companies. Where I live, it's about 6k per year for train and parking into London. About 30 miles. Thankfully I drive to work. Taking public transport would be 3x as expensive and take 3x as long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 2 hours ago, GboroRam said: What's the hidden agenda of everyone who feels that lockdown is probably the best of a bad bunch of choices right now? This is essentially what we're arguing about isn't it? As I mentioned a few weeks ago - essentially a real life trolley bus dillemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem Whatever we do, people will die/suffer. Either from Covid or from the effects of lockdown And the same goes for the economy. And the same goes for the NHS. We're all just trying to find the balance in our minds, and everyone will have different takes. Sadly it's only the government who make the choices and i don't think there are many of us who think they are getting it right I have no problem with anyone who has a different take to me That said I do consider those who want to see any of it as a conspiracy theory of hidden agendas to be suffering with some kind of pandemic-indcued mental health problems and we should be kind to them. It's taking it's toll on all of us mentally, myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: This is essentially what we're arguing about isn't it? As I mentioned a few weeks ago - essentially a real life trolley bus dillemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem Whatever we do, people will die/suffer. Either from Covid or from the effects of lockdown And the same goes for the economy. And the same goes for the NHS. We're all just trying to find the balance in our minds, and everyone will have different takes. Sadly it's only the government who make the choices and i don't think there are many of us who think they are getting it right I have no problem with anyone who has a different take to me That said I do consider those who want to see any of it as a conspiracy theory of hidden agendas to be suffering with some kind of pandemic-indcued mental health problems and we should be kind to them. It's taking it's toll on all of us mentally, myself included. I'd say it's worse than the trolley bus problem, it's the trolley bus problem where you have a lever, hear people screaming, but have to listen to someone else to know what it's going to do. The issue is that a lot of people like to see it as a binary choice, when it absolutely isn't. The economy, deaths, and rate of cases, are linked in several ways. The virus being uncontrolled will tank the economy further, and do a lot of long term damage. Damage to the economy also links to factors that can impact risk of death as well, particularly long terms. That's before even thinking about the concerns of the NHS being put on its knees, and the long term implications of delaying elective and preventative medicine. Then there's the question of how on Earth it got to this point. As seen elsewhere in the World, controlling the virus was possible. The issue is that option now seems too far gone for the UK. Lockdowns, as advised by groups like the WHO, should never been seen as long term options though. The UK does need a better strategy. The more recent literature suggests that the key with effectively using restrictions is also having an effective exit strategy, and maintenance strategy afterwards. A tier system worked in Victoria, and ultimately the lockdown fatigue was overcome by a common desire to be rid of the virus. They celebrated 28 days without a case today, socially distanced of course, and given how out of control their situation was, that is a big deal. Again though, I'm not convinced the will is there in the UK to go for such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: I think by 'London', people mean the West End, Buckingham Palace, Mayfair Hyde Park and the City of London. No one really lives in these players, apart from a handful of oligarchs. Rest of London is a mix of some nice areas where property is crazy expensive, some ok areas where property is really expensive and some awful areas where property is still pricey. In all 3 areas, most people have very little expendable income. If you are a teacher/nurse/police etc then you are probably young and skint and are planning to move away. If you ever get the chance, drive down the A40 from the M25 into central London. Miles of terrible, polluted roads right next to stacks of grim housing. You'll pass Grenfell Tower too. At the very end of the journey, you'll be by Regent's Park next to an arc of incredible houses, and you can look at them and moan how Londoners are all so rich and have it easy. If there are genuine targets for jealously/dislike, outside of the Oligarchs, then they probably reside in the counties around London, isolated from the realities of Covid. And across the rest of the country too. Many of the London and City based MPs probably come from, and still live, in cities themselves. I know the A40 well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Just now, Angry Ram said: I know the A40 well. Some of them houses with dual carriageway flyovers outside their upstairs windows must be amongst the worst places to live in the uk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 3 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: I think by 'London', people mean the West End, Buckingham Palace, Mayfair Hyde Park and the City of London. No one really lives in these players, apart from a handful of oligarchs. Rest of London is a mix of some nice areas where property is crazy expensive, some ok areas where property is really expensive and some awful areas where property is still pricey. In all 3 areas, most people have very little expendable income. If you are a teacher/nurse/police etc then you are probably young and skint and are planning to move away. If you ever get the chance, drive down the A40 from the M25 into central London. Miles of terrible, polluted roads right next to stacks of grim housing. You'll pass Grenfell Tower too. At the very end of the journey, you'll be by Regent's Park next to an arc of incredible houses, and you can look at them and moan how Londoners are all so rich and have it easy. If there are genuine targets for jealously/dislike, outside of the Oligarchs, then they probably reside in the counties around London, isolated from the realities of Covid. And across the rest of the country too. Many of the London and City based MPs probably come from, and still live, in cities themselves. When people think of London, they haven't got boroughs like Newham, Tower Hamlets, Brent, Lambeth etc in mind. I used to live in Newham for a bit and apart from Stratford Westfield and the developments around it, it must have some of the most deprived areas I've seen. Well paid people in reasonable jobs have to make large sacrifices and tough decisions if you want to live there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Albert said: Lockdowns, as advised by groups like the WHO I’m dying for someone to tell me what the last lockdown has done for the country? Areas come out of lockdown with higher rates than going in. Now most are in a worst position than before the lockdown. Seems a complete waste of time to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 6 hours ago, Angry Ram said: No you’re wrong. I can’t go to dinner with friends just people I live with. It ain’t one big party down here. Folk are struggling as much as you, maybe more. It’s not a competition, we are a nation. Cinemas have been closed here as well. Small local shops are closing, people are losing their jobs. It grinds my gears when people think it’s a easy life to live in London. People work hard just like you, people suffer, just like you. We all want this over. Most of those politicians are not in London anyway, they live all over the country, north, south, east and west. Most are not in parliament at the moment but living and working from home in whatever tier has been allocated. London is a ghost town. It’s dying as much, if not more than the rest of the country. It’s bloody expensive to live down here mate. People need to get over their envy of London, the country needs a strong capital. I did mean normal people mate I on about popurtaions mate think there above the new rules. Your cinemas can stay open in teir 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 29 minutes ago, TexasRam said: I’m dying for someone to tell me what the last lockdown has done for the country? Areas come out of lockdown with higher rates than going in. Now most are in a worst position than before the lockdown. Seems a complete waste of time to me. Because they were on an upward path before we went in. It's taken til now for the increase to slow, peak and now heading back down again in most areas. How high would those rates have been now without the lockdown, though?. And we're still in it. The infection rates could well be a lot lower by this time next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 49 minutes ago, Wolfie said: Because they were on an upward path before we went in. It's taken til now for the increase to slow, peak and now heading back down again in most areas. How high would those rates have been now without the lockdown, though?. And we're still in it. The infection rates could well be a lot lower by this time next week. No different imo if we had gone into lockdown or not. They make zero difference we have to get the R number down : ✅ we have to protect the NHS from not being overwhelmed: ✅ yet we’re still locked up and stuck in Tier 3 absolute ******** all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 35 minutes ago, TexasRam said: No different imo if we had gone into lockdown or not. They make zero difference we have to get the R number down : ✅ we have to protect the NHS from not being overwhelmed: ✅ yet we’re still locked up and stuck in Tier 3 absolute ******** all of it. Your right , the good thing is more and more people are waking up to it and the point will come when they won’t stand for it anymore, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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