Ghost of Clough Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Albert said: The same can also be said of other countries, including the UK, which from the outside looks like they've diddled their death figures quite harshly with this '28 days' rule. From what I remember, this was a commonly used rule across most countries, certainly across Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 8 hours ago, Albert said: It's worth noting this line from the source of Uptherams' data: The source also discussing the fact that pneumonia makes up virtually all the deaths in the 'flu and pneumonia' figures for this year. The flu has killed 394, while pneumonia has killed 13,619. It's like saying 'the UK and Slovenia have a population of around 70 million combined'. https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-and-pneumonia You are just making it up as you go along. Covid also causes Sepsis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 22 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I dont remember a spike in cases in May or June? Plenty of pics of BLM marches on the internet too if you're looking for some more material. Whether it's people enjoying their morning constitutional (by the million, on the beach) or marching through London - it doesn't matter. My comment was that we could have been more tough on lockdown. I presume you're agreeing with me by using BLM as your example? Or are you saying we don't need to lock down and the BLM marches weren't being unreasonably risky with regards to public health? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, Uptherams said: https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-and-pneumonia You are just making it up as you go along. Covid also causes Sepsis. Not sure I follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: From what I remember, this was a commonly used rule across most countries, certainly across Europe You wouldn't happen to know which countries? From what I've seen this isn't the case through Europe. Equally, it being commonly used doesn't change that it dodgies up the data a bit. 6 minutes ago, Uptherams said: https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-and-pneumonia You are just making it up as you go along. Covid also causes Sepsis. Covid causes a type of atypical pneumonia, which is different to what the ONS is counting here. They are separate things. 32 minutes ago, TexasRam said: It’s simple they have a brighter population . We have got what we have got and have to deal with it in our own way. Unfortunately lockdowns will not work for us ...are you actually arguing that the UK's population is just too dumb for lockdowns to work? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 hour ago, TexasRam said: Not a wave is it. I think a serious error is being made when comparing with the charts for the Spanish flu deaths globally. Many nations and cities had one big wave of Spanish flu deaths, much like the UK with Covid and then a little ripple a little later, much like we have in the UK currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 27 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I'm not sure if they are brighter, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have a better education system than ours. They certainly have a brighter and more competent government than we do. I might look up the background to their leading politicians and see if they are journalists, pr workers etc or if they have any experience in the area they are responsible for. I’ve spent a lot of time there, they are brighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Albert said: 35 minutes ago, TexasRam said: ...are you actually arguing that the UK's population is just too dumb for lockdowns to work? What? Yes, do you not watch the news in the UK? We are on par with the US for being stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 13 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Planning to go out this Saturday for a delicious bowl of chips? Accompanied by 10 pints of course And this is exactly why the virus is running wild again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Uptherams said: Not a wave is it. I think a serious error is being made when comparing with the charts for the Spanish flu deaths globally. Many nations and cities had one big wave of Spanish flu deaths, much like the UK with Covid and then a little ripple a little later, much like we have in the UK currently. It's certainly nowhere near the worst-case scenarios that were offered, but you would hope that they wouldn't be if we've put these restrictions in place across the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, TexasRam said: Yes, do you not watch the news in the UK? We are on par with the US for being stupid Eh? What ya on about ? https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-large-crowd-dispersed-from-liverpool-city-centre-two-hours-before-tough-tier-3-restrictions-begin-12103642 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, TexasRam said: Yes, do you not watch the news in the UK? We are on par with the US for being stupid Just wait until we get our own version of Fox News next year, with Andrew Neil looking to be the Loudest Voice in the Room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Shadow Minister Rachel Reeves says a 2-week 'circuit breaker' lockdown would 'put the virus back 28 days'. Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has called for a 2 to 3-week lockdown as recommended by SAGE. Oh great. So it's as us sceptics feared. It's not a temporary lockdown. 2-3 week lockdown either gets extended or we have another 28 days later. Repeat, repeat.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 FACE SPACE HANDS - space out, wear a mask and wash/sanitise your hands - how hard is that? We could maybe have a double half term mini lockdown but anything longer and its Good night Vienna for the economy The Police have been somewhat lame in breaking up spontaneous gatherings - the Piccadilly cricket match for example Fines should be boosted - I would go for Cost of treating one person in a COVID ward for a week multiplied by your area's R number ... should be quite eye-watering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 33 minutes ago, Albert said: You wouldn't happen to know which countries? From what I've seen this isn't the case through Europe. Equally, it being commonly used doesn't change that it dodgies up the data a bit. Previously, it was a death at any point after testing positive. Logic dictates that everyone will eventually die (no time limit) so we'd be looking at a minimum of 600,000 deaths in the future. Obviously, a limit had to be set. If it's commonly used across countries, then a direct comparison can be made. There was this in May, where most countries were using the no time limit method, but I'm sure they changed the method since. A BBC article in August when we made the change: "The 28 days is widely used in many countries and England is now the same as the rest of the UK". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 hour ago, maxjam said: I'm not saying we haven't made mistakes and the track and trace scheme has been woeful ? According to the Guardian article someone linked above (sorry forgot who!) Strong public health guidance on avoiding the virus at any age is needed, encouraging people to get outside as much as possible, to avoid indoor, crowded and poorly ventilated spaces, and to use face coverings and distancing wherever possible. And we need strict border measures to prevent the virus from being reimported, instead of our current system that is lax and poorly monitored. All the so called covidiots messing around outside weren't really spreading the virus that much - it was inevitable covid would flare up again as we went back to work/school. I thought that Guardian article was about as good a summary as I've read. We had a brutal 3 month lockdown and flattened the curve immensely - but instead of using that opportunity to implement proper border controls, effective testing and a high quality track and trace system (which would have allowed life to continue in as normal a manner as it did in July and August) - we just screwed up and did none of those things effectively I said yesterday that I supported the concept of short circuit break lockdowns as preferable to another 3 monther, but even there seems little point if we don't fix the above 3 things. Vaccines are still a long way off, and even when they arrive there is a sizeable majority of people who would refuse it. The solution is lockdowns, it's learning to manage transmission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: We had a brutal 3 month lockdown and flattened the curve immensely - but instead of using that opportunity to implement proper border controls, effective testing and a high quality track and trace system (which would have allowed life to continue in as normal a manner as it did in July and August) - we just screwed up and did none of those things effectively Totally agree with this, do you have any confidence that we will have those things in place if we lockdown again? Otherwise the lockdowns are pissing in the wind and do more damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, TexasRam said: Totally agree with this, do you have any confidence that we will have those things in place if we lockdown again? Otherwise the lockdowns are pissing in the wind and do more damage Especially @Ghost of Clough after his ten pints Kagool anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I thought that Guardian article was about as good a summary as I've read. We had a brutal 3 month lockdown and flattened the curve immensely - but instead of using that opportunity to implement proper border controls, effective testing and a high quality track and trace system (which would have allowed life to continue in as normal a manner as it did in July and August) - we just screwed up and did none of those things effectively I said yesterday that I supported the concept of short circuit break lockdowns as preferable to another 3 monther, but even there seems little point if we don't fix the above 3 things. Vaccines are still a long way off, and even when they arrive there is a sizeable majority of people who would refuse it. The solution is lockdowns, it's learning to manage transmission I'd argue that with 1m passing through the country everyday, implementing proper border controls would cause insufferable delays to getting in/out and kill a large part of the economy. There is also the post lockdown issue of covid being spread more easily inside - and therefore schools/universities/work places. I'd agree that the lockdown worked as a short term fix, but another one would be pretty pointless, unless there is a vaccine it will just push what we're seeing now back a few weeks and people will rebel - especially during the cold, dark winter months and over Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said: I imagine @GboroRam avoided those so we didn't get all the "surely all lives matter" posts triggered from bot accounts. Duly noted. I shall no longer refer to certain individuals pulling information from their backsides but from their bots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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