ariotofmyown Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 minute ago, rammieib said: And you think the same is going to happen again or would happen again? I don’t think we’re asking for much to get our health care back up to the Pre Covid levels unless you don’t want that? In the absence of any evidence that it won't happen again, I think we should be very careful. What evidence is there that the same won't happen again? I guess the government not deciding to place untested hospital patients into care homes would help, but we don't have many details on that as they are being kept hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 33 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: What evidence is there that the same won't happen again? What evidence is there it will? The better safe than sorry arguments are going to be expensive and very destructive to our way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 75 new cases here recorded yesterday and talk of total lock down again. There was no info on how many of those 75 were seriously ill, if any, but the overall count is 2 in hospital currently. Like elsewhere, it is the young who are contracting this mutated version of the original virus. Iceland was well prepared economically for this hit on state income, but we will be in big trouble soon and that tells me that many countries are now running on empty. i have come to my own conclusions and there's no need to go into them here, except to say, hard times are most likely coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 3 hours ago, TexasRam said: What evidence is there it will? The better safe than sorry arguments are going to be expensive and very destructive to our way of life. I assume you were calling for the end of lockdown in April when the bodies were building up too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 4 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: In the absence of any evidence that it won't happen again, I think we should be very careful. What evidence is there that the same won't happen again? I guess the government not deciding to place untested hospital patients into care homes would help, but we don't have many details on that as they are being kept hidden. Known treatments, better knowledge for medical professionals for general treatments, the cases now are significantly in Young people (although granted they probably always were!), social distancing, significantly more testing available (accuracy a big IF). The fact that we’re now catching a significant amount of cases (circa half as an estimate compares to circa 5% back in April). Plus the actual hospitalisation curve against cases right now is nowhere near reflecting what it was like back in March and April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Lockdown in March/April/May was absolutely right, we didn't know what we were dealing with, hadn't improved our hospital capacity, and really weren't ready. Now we have learned a lot more. Surely there has to be a better way than locking it up again? I'm terrified of the prospect of leaving uni next year to a market with no jobs going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 5 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: In the absence of any evidence that it won't happen again, I think we should be very careful. What evidence is there that the same won't happen again? I guess the government not deciding to place untested hospital patients into care homes would help, but we don't have many details on that as they are being kept hidden. When did the Government become responsible for discharging people from hospital? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Andicis said: Lockdown in March/April/May was absolutely right, we didn't know what we were dealing with, hadn't improved our hospital capacity, and really weren't ready. Now we have learned a lot more. Surely there has to be a better way than locking it up again? I'm terrified of the prospect of leaving uni next year to a market with no jobs going. Mate, I work in a prison, and they just advertised a low pay job - 20k a year - with no prisoner contact. Weekends, shift work, some night shifts. Over 1000 applied. For one job. With unsocial hours. It's already happened. I feel for you. Worst possible time to go in to the job market will be next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 6 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: When did the Government become responsible for discharging people from hospital? Well I never expected you to return. Again. This is an interesting parliamentary report... https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmpubacc/405/40502.htm I've pasted a couple of pertinent parts below "9.On 17 March the NHS told trusts to discharge urgently all medically fit hospital patients with COVID-19 to maximise inpatient and critical care capacity. On 2 April, the Department [Department of Health & Social Care] told care homes that they needed to make their full capacity available and could admit patients with COVID-19 by isolating suspected or confirmed cases. Some Local Authorities were pressurising Care Homes to take patients discharged from hospitals.19 Yet until 15 April there was no policy to test patients for COVID-19 before discharging them to care homes. By this point 25,000 people had been discharged from hospitals to care homes and the Department does not know how many had COVID-19.20" "2.Discharging patients from hospital into social care without first testing them for COVID-19 was an appalling error. Shockingly, Government policy up to and including 15 April was to not test all patients discharged from hospital for COVID-19. In the period up to 15 April, up to a maximum of five symptomatic residents would be tested in a care home in order to confirm an outbreak. Belatedly, after discharging 25,000 people from hospitals to care homes between 17 March and 15 April, the Department confirmed a new policy of testing everyone prior to admission to care homes. Public Health England confirmed that it was already becoming clear in late March, and certainly from the beginning of April, that the COVID-19 infection had an asymptomatic phase, when people could be infectious without being aware they were sick. The Department does not know how many of the 25,000 discharged patients had COVID-19. The number of reported first-time outbreaks in individual care homes peaked at 1,009 in early April. Between 9 March and 17 May, around 5,900 care homes, equivalent to 38% of care homes across England, reported at least one outbreak. The Department says that it took rational decisions based on the information it had at the time, but acknowledges that it would not necessarily do the same thing again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Do we want to lockdown again to save a few hundred lives or do we risk thousands of more jobs, leading to more potential deaths than COVID due to the effects of unemployment and mental health. I would personally go with the latter option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Anyone saying the virus has mutated got any evidence it has? You know, anything in the British Medical Journal or such like? Anyone know how with cases rising amongst the young how they plan on these cases not being transferred to the elderly/vulnerable, without lockdown measures/distancing/masks etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Scary/chilling question asked by a doctor on the radio yesterday - in the absence of a vacine, at what point will the public decide to accept 20,000 annual deaths from Covid in order to return to 'normality' in the same way they currently accept 20,000 annual flu deaths?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 50 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said: Do we want to lockdown again to save a few hundred lives or do we risk thousands of more jobs, leading to more potential deaths than COVID due to the effects of unemployment and mental health. I would personally go with the latter option. I guess everyone is hoping that it isn’t a case of one or the other and there is something in the middle. Local and temporary “soft” lock downs (e.g. increased restrictions on social gatherings) won’t have the same damaging effect on the economy (although I do accept there is a risk to mental health that needs to be considered, hence why ideally they need to only be temporary). Even the stricter restrictions in places like Caerphilly allow travel for work and businesses are allowed to stay open. We just need to see evidence that such measures are having the desired effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Strange with all these new cases flying about ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Gaspode said: Scary/chilling question asked by a doctor on the radio yesterday - in the absence of a vacine, at what point will the public decide to accept 20,000 annual deaths from Covid in order to return to 'normality' in the same way they currently accept 20,000 annual flu deaths?..... We get this number of Flu deaths WITH a vaccine. How many covid without? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Mental at work this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 went in two pubs last night, the first, ok when we got there but we left when it became apparent no measures were being adhered to, standing allowed, people congregating, standing, chatting where you were supposed to queue to get your drinks. second pub spot on, great social distancing, people not allowed in unless a table available to sit at. it's not just the public who don't follow rules but business owners too, it's a shame for those really making an effort if they get shut down again because of those who don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 46 minutes ago, FindernRam said: We get this number of Flu deaths WITH a vaccine. How many covid without? Well, we had 65,000 excess deaths with a lockdown, badly organised as it was, in roughly 6 months. Without the lockdown, how bad could it have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 50 minutes ago, TexasRam said: Strange with all these new cases flying about ? I don't believe those deaths in the Spring even happened. There are no deaths in Feb so how could any of them happened after? QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said: I don't believe those deaths in the Spring even happened. There are no deaths in Feb so how could any of them happened after? QED God your boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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