Harry and Meghan

[DarkFruitsRam7]

3 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Because I don’t believe your default comment would be ‘white guy’ without it being a deliberate choice of words. 

It wasn't really. After I wrote it, I thought it was actually quite relevant because it was another example of a white person throwing around the term 'racist', but it just so happens that it was aimed at the opposite side of the divide

You showed the difference between how Kate and Meghan were treated in the press and then chose to label it racism, which it clearly isn’t. I could call you a racist for the white guy comment but I don’t believe for one second you are, so I will just think that you a desperate to be seen to be woke. Congrats you have achieved that. Throw your labels around, dilute any real racism and become part of the problem. Way to go yoof.

I believe I said 'I can't think of any other reason'. I certainly haven't come to a definite conclusion, but you seem far more certain than me. I'm definitely not desperate to be 'woke', as I actually push back against quite a lot of 'woke culture' at uni. Do you not think Laurence Fox (there you go, I remembered his name) was 'diluting' real racism by calling the woman in the audience racist?

She was not making a valid point and was rightly put in her place by The White Guy. Tell me why it is so important that white people seem to want to speak up for black people when as you say they don’t know what racism is? We continually see the term used cheaply and it’s wrong. As the guy said, clear and obvious.. 

Was the woman in the audience white? I couldn't really tell. As I've said, the 'is it racist' question is one of opinion, and wasn't the point I was referring to. My point was about the idea of 'white privilege', which is something that I've only really started thinking about in any real depth, which has caused my views to change somewhat. See my reply to Andicis for my views on it.

 

[Andicis]

8 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Would you agree that ethnic minorities are going to have more experience dealing with racism than white people? I imagine you would. I've started thinking of it like this:

Sure. I can accept that. However there is no one voice for ethnic minorities, it's loads of different people with loads of different viewpoints. What one person might consider racist, another might not. Therefore, which are we to listen to? It's not that simple. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Sure. I can accept that. However there is no one voice for ethnic minorities, it's loads of different people with loads of different viewpoints. What one person might consider racist, another might not. Therefore, which are we to listen to? It's not that simple. 

Of course, you're right.

I just think the 'white privilege' argument isn't something that should be disregarded simply because it makes us feel uncomfortable and we know that we ourselves aren't racist. I think it has its place when discussing people's points of view, and why the minorities who witness racism on a daily basis are probably a better judge than those who don't. That doesn't mean they agree, but it does wind me up when people like Fox sneer at any suggestion of racism that isn't obvious on the surface.

[Gone]

2 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Of course, you're right.

I just think the 'white privilege' argument isn't something that should be disregarded simply because it makes us feel uncomfortable and we know that we ourselves aren't racist. I think it has its place when discussing people's points of view, and why the minorities who witness racism on a daily basis are probably a better judge than those who don't. That doesn't mean they agree, but it does wind me up when people like Fox sneer at any suggestion of racism that isn't obvious on the surface.

What is white privilege? (I’m not trying to be clever, I really don’t understand it. Hence asking folk to keep posting it) Cheers??

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Of course, you're right.

I just think the 'white privilege' argument isn't something that should be disregarded simply because it makes us feel uncomfortable and we know that we ourselves aren't racist. I think it has its place when discussing people's points of view, and why the minorities who witness racism on a daily basis are probably a better judge than those who don't. That doesn't mean they agree, but it does wind me up when people like Fox sneer at any suggestion of racism that isn't obvious on the surface.

But what does the white privilege argument help or change? It's hostile in nature, and very accusatory. It's not a great way to get people on your side is it? It's why I'm tired and bored of it. I'm sure I'd agree with the underlying principles of it, but it's morphed into something I find a little bit unsavoury. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

9 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

What is white privilege? (I’m not trying to be clever, I really don’t understand it. Hence asking folk to keep posting it) Cheers??

See my post about half an hour ago. About the plumbers. 

9 minutes ago, Andicis said:

But what does the white privilege argument help or change? It's hostile in nature, and very accusatory. It's not a great way to get people on your side is it? It's why I'm tired and bored of it. I'm sure I'd agree with the underlying principles of it, but it's morphed into something I find a little bit unsavoury. 

Then perhaps the issue is with the way in which it's presented? I agree, shouting at someone and calling them a 'white, privileged male' isn't going to help. But maybe explaining the point of view and suggesting that, because he's extremely unlikely to have experienced racism in his life, his perceptions of what is and is not racist are likely to be a little duller than someone who experiences it all the time. And if he disagrees, then hey ho. It's far more important that he doesn't partake in it than whether or not he thinks the press are influenced by racism.

[Andicis]

7 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Then perhaps the issue is with the way in which it's presented?

Basically, yes. That's where my issues come in with it. I think it could be worded and presented in a much less inflammatory way.

[ariotofmyown]

Maybe white privilege is living in a country where the Primeminister will never single my people out for religious/cultural dress, and also due to the colour of my skin, I don't fear for my safety by looking different to the majority of people in the country which I was born/live?

[Gone]

15 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

See my post about half an hour ago. About the plumbers. 

Then perhaps the issue is with the way in which it's presented? I agree, shouting at someone and calling them a 'white, privileged male' isn't going to help. But maybe explaining the point of view and suggesting that, because he's extremely unlikely to have experienced racism in his life, his perceptions of what is and is not racist are likely to be a little duller than someone who experiences it all the time. And if he disagrees, then hey ho. It's far more important that he doesn't partake in it than whether or not he thinks the press are influenced by racism.

Ah right so white privilege is where white people cant talk about racism because they aren’t experienced enough in it. That doesn’t seem very privileged to be honest 

[Parsnip]

33 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

What is white privilege? (I’m not trying to be clever, I really don’t understand it.

John Lennon nailed it a long time ago.

 

[Angry Ram]

47 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

 

Go back to your revision, you might be more successful with that..

[Parsnip]

3 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Ah right so white privilege is where white people cant talk about racism because they aren’t experienced enough in it. That doesn’t seem very privileged to be honest 

No. That's not it at all. 

[Mick Brolly]

24 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

See my post about half an hour ago. About the plumbers.

I'm so confused why would you have a accountant doing your plumbing? Look in the yellow pages you'll find loads of proper plumbers. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

6 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Ah right so white privilege is where white people cant talk about racism because they aren’t experienced enough in it. That doesn’t seem very privileged to be honest 

No. Why do you have to see it in such black and white (pun intended) terms?

It's acknowledging that we probably have less of a sense for what's racist and what isn't than those who deal with it everyday. It's listening to what minorities have to say, rather than sneering at them as soon as they try and bring it up.

[Stive Pesley]

24 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Ah right so white privilege is where white people cant talk about racism because they aren’t experienced enough in it. That doesn’t seem very privileged to be honest 

No - the fact you have blatantly misunderstood it, could be deliberate. Or that could just be my prejudice based on knowing that Texas is a state with a disproportionate amount of backwards rednecks (of which I assume you aren't)

White privilege is never having to walk into a room of strangers at work and feeling self-conscious about the fact you are the only dark-skinned person there, never having to worry about whether your skin colour will work against you at a job interview, never having to feel like you need to try that little bit harder because you aren't white - and a myriad other things that we take for granted

Just because you might have no concept of it, that means it doesn't exist., Nor does it mean you should shut down any conversations about it because it makes you feel uncomfortable. 

It feels like there are two types of responses to the term "white privilege" - the intelligent response, which is "oh yeah, I'd never thought about that, but actually yes I can now think about it and can see how that might exist. I should at least try and bear that in mind when discussing race issues" and the not-so-intelligent response of "nnngggg NO! gOD! Whyis it?S such a sin top be WHITE TYHES EDAYS~?! i THINK THAT you miTGhT be The Rcaist ASIST""

 

 

[Parsnip]

I like to think that my White Privilege thread ages ago, now deleted, was a big part of getting politics banned from the forum. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

14 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

No - the fact you have blatantly misunderstood it, could be deliberate. Or that could just be my prejudice based on knowing that Texas is a state with a disproportionate amount of backwards rednecks (of which I assume you aren't)

White privilege is never having to walk into a room of strangers at work and feeling self-conscious about the fact you are the only dark-skinned person there, never having to worry about whether your skin colour will work against you at a job interview, never having to feel like you need to try that little bit harder because you aren't white - and a myriad other things that we take for granted

Just because you might have no concept of it, that means it doesn't exist., Nor does it mean you should shut down any conversations about it because it makes you feel uncomfortable. 

It feels like there are two types of responses to the term "white privilege" - the intelligent response, which is "oh yeah, I'd never thought about that, but actually yes I can now think about it and can see how that might exist. I should at least try and bear that in mind when discussing race issues" and the not-so-intelligent response of "nnngggg NO! gOD! Whyis it?S such a sin top be WHITE TYHES EDAYS~?! i THINK THAT you miTGhT be The Rcaist ASIST""

This.

Apart from disagreeing with the way that the argument is delivered (e.g. screaming ‘you’re privileged’ at someone), I really can’t see how it’s so difficult to accept that we are ‘lucky’ to be born into the ethnicity that has it by far the easiest in this country.

[Gone]

18 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

No - the fact you have blatantly misunderstood it, could be deliberate. Or that could just be my prejudice based on knowing that Texas is a state with a disproportionate amount of backwards rednecks (of which I assume you aren't)

White privilege is never having to walk into a room of strangers at work and feeling self-conscious about the fact you are the only dark-skinned person there, never having to worry about whether your skin colour will work against you at a job interview, never having to feel like you need to try that little bit harder because you aren't white - and a myriad other things that we take for granted

Just because you might have no concept of it, that means it doesn't exist., Nor does it mean you should shut down any conversations about it because it makes you feel uncomfortable. 

It feels like there are two types of responses to the term "white privilege" - the intelligent response, which is "oh yeah, I'd never thought about that, but actually yes I can now think about it and can see how that might exist. I should at least try and bear that in mind when discussing race issues" and the not-so-intelligent response of "nnngggg NO! gOD! Whyis it?S such a sin top be WHITE TYHES EDAYS~?! i THINK THAT you miTGhT be The Rcaist ASIST""

 

 

Oh dear that’s an outlandish stereotype and In itself  is extremely incorrect, have you been to Texas? I actually lived in South Texas where the population was. 95% Hispanic and I was known as the “White Guy” or the “white English guy” so guess what I have a huge concept for it. Just wanted to understand what you thought it was, so thanks for your answer. 

[maxjam]

40 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

It feels like there are two types of responses to the term "white privilege" - the intelligent response...

Here's hoping I provide an intelligent counter response...

Anti-whiteness is a gift to the Tories.  As long as whiteness continues to be used as an insult by lefties, working-class men and women will never return to Labour as their obsession with it utterly erases class.  There is no group doing worse in society at present than the white working class male;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/07/british-education-failure-white-working-class

Also, just out of interest what privilege did the victims of grooming gangs have?  And what about the perpetrators?

[Parsnip]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

What is white privilege?

I can simplify this...

Answer these two quick questions:

1. Have you ever looked at what you're wearing and worried that you might get raped because you're showing too much skin?

2. Have you ever worried that you won't be taken seriously in your profession because of your gender?

If it's 'no' to both then you're most likely a man and you are benefiting from male privilege. 

White privilege is exactly the same.