Harry and Meghan

[Highgate]

3 hours ago, Norman said:

I think you might have misread. Name a country that is more Liberal, historically democratic, diverse and tolerant than this one. 

They have to tick all those boxes. 

Well lets just say your phrasing was ambiguous then.  You are going with an overall score it seems! 

It would have to be a country without an Empire then.  And that goes for all Empires. Tolerant and liberal at home is of little comfort to other nations, habitually treated as second-class and denied the right to their own country by force. 

You should have left democratic off your list entirely.  All countries still maintaining a monarchy should be discounted really (which can still be used to bypass court judgements, as with Orders in Council in the UK).  The UK has never had an elected head of state and maintains FPTP  electoral system that effectively doesn't allow minority political viewpoints to develop.  As for direct democracy, referendums in the UK are very rare (maybe a good thing come to think of it).  But in 2020 at least, the UK cannot be considered the 'most democratic' country in the world.  14th in 2018 actually, according to the this list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

As for diversity.  It's a very welcome attribute for a country to have and the UK scores very well here no doubt.  But it's hardly the fault of some countries, that haven't had an empire or an historically strong economy that attracted migrants, that they are less ethnically diverse.  As long as they are not trying to prevent it, there is nothing at all wrong with a country lacking ethnic diversity.  When will all you SJWs finally accept that?  ?

[AndyinLiverpool]

28 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I wouldn't say any were better than us, some broadly similar but  as you say the measuring factors would be up for discussion anyway.

 

No studies but I have a couple of good Swedish friends in a gaming clan I'm in and they tell me that we don't know the half of Swedens problems with immigration.  The media have briefly touched on it but according to them some places are getting really rough;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45181321

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50339977

And I know that Denmark are becming increasingly concerned with immigration.  They also already ban the burqa.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/12/denmark-border-checks-crossings-sweden

https://www.economist.com/europe/2019/06/04/under-left-or-right-denmark-will-get-ever-tougher-with-migrants

https://time.com/5504331/denmark-migrants-lindholm-island/

 

I don't think everything is rosey in the UK, but we don't do to bad and we are one of the better places to live in the world.  All this self loathing that goes on in the media, the perpetual doom and gloom says nothing of the strides we've made and continue to make. 

A bit of positivity once in a while wouldn't detract from the work we still need to do.

If the only British person I knew was you, what impression of the UK would I get?

[Highgate]

1 hour ago, SaintRam said:

Not to say I agree with Norman; because I don't - but you're overvaluing some of Scandinavia.

YouGov (albeit, just a poll) ranked Denmark as the most racist country in northern Europe in 2015; an EU study in 2019 said that Finland was the most racist out of 12 countries (that included Italy). Sweden has the most segregated labour market of people with a foreign background in Europe. Plenty people of the Netherlands still cover themselves in blackface for the feast of St. Nicholas. (these are all just examples; not the extent of their flaws).

You might have a shot with Norway and Iceland though. I've a friend who recently moved to Norway. Seems a lovely place; and people from Iceland just seem so nice.

I would say that Europe as a whole is still more racist than even the US.  Probably a legacy of having distinct mono-ethnic (or at least the perception of such) nations as opposed to the 'melting pot' of the US.  That said, things seem to be heading in a disturbing direction in the US of late.

[maxjam]

4 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

If the only British person I knew was you, what impression of the UK would I get?

You do realise that I didn't base my entire argument off what someone else said at the other end of a keyboard don't you?

I also posted a couple of links to highlight some problems Sweden is having and there's more online if you're willing to look yourself.

But to answer your question, you'd get a largely positive impression of the UK.  I'd focus on the progress we've made and what we still have to do rather than spend to much time beating ourselves up for the mistakes of the past.

[Norman]

23 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Well lets just say your phrasing was ambiguous then.  You are going with an overall score it seems! 

It would have to be a country without an Empire then.  And that goes for all Empires. Tolerant and liberal at home is of little comfort to other nations, habitually treated as second-class and denied the right to their own country by force. 

You should have left democratic off your list entirely.  All countries still maintaining a monarchy should be discounted really (which can still be used to bypass court judgements, as with Orders in Council in the UK).  The UK has never had an elected head of state and maintains FPTP  electoral system that effectively doesn't allow minority political viewpoints to develop.  As for direct democracy, referendums in the UK are very rare (maybe a good thing come to think of it).  But in 2020 at least, the UK cannot be considered the 'most democratic' country in the world.  14th in 2018 actually, according to the this list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

As for diversity.  It's a very welcome attribute for a country to have and the UK scores very well here no doubt.  But it's hardly the fault of some countries, that haven't had an empire or an historically strong economy that attracted migrants, that they are less ethnically diverse.  As long as they are not trying to prevent it, there is nothing at all wrong with a country lacking ethnic diversity.  When will all you SJWs finally accept that?  ?

So basically you're saying a strong economy brings benifits to a country, such as diversity, and therefore tolerance, but they don't count because we are an old empire. And we don't have referendums. Lolz

Ok then.

[Highgate]

4 minutes ago, Norman said:

So basically you're saying a strong economy brings benifits to a country, such as diversity, and therefore tolerance, but they don't count because we are an old empire. And we don't have referendums. Lolz

Ok then.

You read an entirely different post it seems.  No surprise really.   It was you who brought up 'historically democratic'.  So the Empire is relevant.

[Norman]

2 minutes ago, Highgate said:

You read an entirely different post it seems.  No surprise really. 

Not really. I get what you're saying. Just making fun of your arguments to rank this country lower than its worth. Mind you, you don't live here so you wouldn't know. Isn't that one of your arguments? 

[Highgate]

14 minutes ago, Norman said:

Not really. I get what you're saying. Just making fun of your arguments to rank this country lower than its worth. Mind you, you don't live here so you wouldn't know. Isn't that one of your arguments? 

I didn't rank the country at all.  You ranked it......at number 1. I gave you to an Economist compiled list which ranked the UK as the 14th most democratic.

I did live in the UK from 1996-2001, quite a while ago now admittedly.  I think very highly of the UK and I would wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone thinking of living there, for a wide variety of reasons (not sure how Brexit might alter things in that regard...hopefully not much). 

Not too fond of the furiously flag-waving 'bring back the Empire' brigade though, in the UK or other countries.

[AndyinLiverpool]

41 minutes ago, maxjam said:

You do realise that I didn't base my entire argument off what someone else said at the other end of a keyboard don't you?

I also posted a couple of links to highlight some problems Sweden is having and there's more online if you're willing to look yourself.

But to answer your question, you'd get a largely positive impression of the UK.  I'd focus on the progress we've made and what we still have to do rather than spend to much time beating ourselves up for the mistakes of the past.

Not sure about that. I might just get the impression that Britain is an island of frightened white men threatened by the modern world.

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Not sure about that. I might just get the impression that Britain is an island of frightened white men threatened by the modern world.

I think that's unfair - it's not all men. There is Katie Hopkins too

[BriggRam]

6 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Not sure about that. I might just get the impression that Britain is an island of frightened white men threatened by the modern world.

And frightened white girls let down by authorities that should have protected them ???

[Comrade 86]

10 hours ago, Norman said:

Blah blah blah. 

Name a country that tops us on diversity, liberalism, human rights, historical democracy, tolerance etc etc. 

If you can name 5 countries better than the UK in All of those areas I will stop ranting hyperbole. Or maybe you should. We will find out. 

What would be the point? Your mind is completely closed to any differing school of thought. Tedious AF.

[1of4]

The Queen as head of state I can live with, better than having a president, and she does generate money for the country through tourism. But as for the overblown royal family, I don't think they should receive a penny of public money.

This is one of the few times that I agree with other posters that a nationally funded organisation, would be better, if it was privately run. If the royal family were to become a PLC, I'd have no problem with it. So if Harry and his wife and kid want to go off an do their own thing, great. Just hope it encourages all the other royal hangers on to bugger off and fend for them selves.

[GboroRam]

9 hours ago, 1of4 said:

The Queen as head of state I can live with, better than having a president, and she does generate money for the country through tourism. But as for the overblown royal family, I don't think they should receive a penny of public money.

This is one of the few times that I agree with other posters that a nationally funded organisation, would be better, if it was privately run. If the royal family were to become a PLC, I'd have no problem with it. So if Harry and his wife and kid want to go off an do their own thing, great. Just hope it encourages all the other royal hangers on to bugger off and fend for them selves.

Could we privatise the monarchy? Save us a fortune. I'm sure a pioneering capitalist could make this publicly funded venture turn into a goldmine.

[Wolfie]

I'm going to leave this here & run away....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/51145321/actor-laurence-fox-s-question-time-clash-over-meghan

 

[Parsnip]

Incoming death of Prince Phillip. Daily Mail to blame Meghan...

Happening within 48 hours...

[BaaLocks]

Nine pages on Harry and Meghan? The scene in the cafe where she pretends to get a giggle on is good but besides that it's just your standard rom com.

[BaaLocks]

7 hours ago, Van Wolfie said:

I'm going to leave this here & run away....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/51145321/actor-laurence-fox-s-question-time-clash-over-meghan

 

I saw it live and even as he was speakng I thought it was an utterly stupid thing to say. FWIW I agree that the hounding of Meghan is likely not consciously racist (the Di and Fergie analogy is a very good one, thx - I've put that in my pocket for when I need it) and it really doesn't help the argument either way to try and suggest it is, evn though that puts me in a quite horrible place of being in agreement with Pritya Patel on something. I was the same over the Danny Baker image - stupid but not hateful, suggesting racism misses the point. But Lozza's reaction was about as typical as an entitled gammon could be, you couldn't have scripted it closer.

The more worrying thing was the reception he got for his comments - that can't be the country we live in, can it?

[Norman]

On 16/01/2020 at 19:00, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

What would be the point? Your mind is completely closed to any differing school of thought. Tedious AF.

Good answer.

[ariotofmyown]

On 14/01/2020 at 21:39, I Bought the Tee Shirt said:

For what it's worth I agree with you, The British press, It's a cess pitt of lies, Vitriol, Double standards, Perphaps Meghan Markle was a little naive in taking up a Royal for her Husband or may be not, Is it a race thing concerning MM or is it that she's not of British stock, I'll go for both.

The Royal family are RICH and POWERFULL with Government backing, Did Dianna die through an accident or was there dark forces behind this, Did Epstien commit suicide or was he topped, Andy is as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo, But I have no proof, Only 64 years of lifes ups and downs and one who is not easily swayed by others.

Dodi Fayed was a muslim.

Jeffrey Epstein new too much about Andy.

Makes you wonder aye ?

Laughable that anyone thinks the royals could have the intelligence to pull off evil conspiracies. They are mostly thick.