Harry and Meghan

[Norman]

13 minutes ago, Highgate said:

That's a pretty good review, a touch of patriotic bias there maybe? 

Nope. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

33 minutes ago, Norman said:

This country is the most liberal, diverse, tolerant, and historically, democratic country in the whole ducking world. To think millions and millions of Brits are racists and secret xenophobes and are having their subconscious tapped into by the Daily Mail, turning everyone into far-righters is just baalocks. 

It might well be. But that doesn't mean there aren't problems.

Leeds and West Brom are the two best teams in the Championship, but does that mean they can't improve at all? Charles Darwin was a genius when it came to evolution, but did he presume to know everything about the subject? Just because we're probably at a better stage than we ever have been, doesn't mean that racism is gone from society.

Don't mistake me for someone who isn't proud of his country.

Edit: I also don't think I've ever discussed the Royal family with anyone at uni. The vast majority of discussions I've had have been with pro-Royalists at the family dinner table.

[Highgate]

10 minutes ago, Norman said:

Nope. 

Wrong answer

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I just think that the likes of the Mail are feeding the appetites of a certain section of society, whether or not they’re open about it. Dog whistles and all that. 

We’re never going to agree so might as well leave it there.

But people like you throwing around racist this, racist that, dilutes actual racism. I agree best leave it.

[Norman]

19 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Wrong answer

Maybe it is your bias?

Lolz

[Highgate]

3 minutes ago, Norman said:

Maybe it is your bias?

Lolz

It would be perfectly natural if you were biased. 

I think the UK would rank highly on a global scale for liberalism, tolerance, and diversity.  But first in all 3?  That's quite an achievement!  More liberal than the Netherlands?, more diverse than Brazil?  And who could rank tolerance without living in a country first.....but are you completely sure the UK is more tolerant than Canada, Finland and New Zealand?

As for historically the most democratic, that's more difficult to assess. No doubt hugely influential and pivotal in the development of parliamentary democracy and the transference of sovereignty from the monarchs to the general population (a bit of a shame it never quite finished the job in that regard, in my opinion). Instrumental in creating democracy as we know it, of that there is no question.  But as an Empire, committed to, in fact often violently committed to preventing other nations from enjoying democracies of their own. That's not to be overlooked.

A complicated legacy.

[TramRam]

2 hours ago, Highgate said:

It would be perfectly natural if you were biased. 

I think the UK would rank highly on a global scale for liberalism, tolerance, and diversity.  But first in all 3?  That's quite an achievement!  More liberal than the Netherlands?, more diverse than Brazil?  And who could rank tolerance without living in a country first.....but are you completely sure the UK is more tolerant than Canada, Finland and New Zealand?

As for historically the most democratic, that's more difficult to assess. No doubt hugely influential and pivotal in the development of parliamentary democracy and the transference of sovereignty from the monarchs to the general population (a bit of a shame it never quite finished the job in that regard, in my opinion). Instrumental in creating democracy as we know it, of that there is no question.  But as an Empire, committed to, in fact often violently committed to preventing other nations from enjoying democracies of their own. That's not to be overlooked.

A complicated legacy.

A good post, I'd just like to put a little caveat in there.

This land of ours had been invaded by the Romans, the Saxons, Jutes, Angles, Vikings, Normans, Our historical enemy the French were at each others throats for 100s of years, Once the Spanish were desposed of, England started to sow the seeds of conquest, Hence the Britsh Empire.

Now in this age of diversity and PC, We have appologised for our slave trade, Other countrys would like financial reperations for our butchery and rape of their countrys.

So why do other Countrys hate the English, Is it because of the above, Or is it they wish they were as good as we are ?

It's not this generations fault our fore fathers went on a world wide rampage, So why do we appologise?

[Highgate]

14 minutes ago, I Bought the Tee Shirt said:

A good post, I'd just like to put a little caveat in there.

This land of ours had been invaded by the Romans, the Saxons, Jutes, Angles, Vikings, Normans, Our historical enemy the French were at each others throats for 100s of years, Once the Spanish were desposed of, England started to sow the seeds of conquest, Hence the Britsh Empire.

Now in this age of diversity and PC, We have appologised for our slave trade, Other countrys would like financial reperations for our butchery and rape of their countrys.

So why do other Countrys hate the English, Is it because of the above, Or is it they wish they were as good as we are ?

It's not this generations fault our fore fathers went on a world wide rampage, So why do we appologise?

Not really sure that qualifies as a caveat. ?  But I totally agree with your point that nobody from this generation need to feel guilt or apologize for the past.  Not their fault, not their responsibility.

But having an awareness of the full complexity of your own country's past, both the good and the bad, is surely a good thing. 

[Inverurie Ram]

 

[Comrade 86]

Anyone who actually believes that 'this country is the most liberal, diverse, tolerant, and historically, democratic country in the whole ducking world' clearly has no business sermonising others about 'echo chambers'. We are fortunate to live in what is often a relatively liberal society, no doubt, and in some regards there remains plenty of which to be proud, but such gushing hyperbole are the blinkered rantings of those incapable of critical thinking, nothing more.

As for whether the gutter press tap into some fairly unpleasant public character traits, ask yourself this; when 700 refugees drowned in the med and the Sun gave a platform for the horse-faced hate-mongerer that is Katie Hopkins to espouse that refugees 'are cockroaches, built to survive a nuclear holocaust' and that they should be 'machine-gunned in the water' rather than being allowed to reach British soil, what was the upshot? Did it sell papers or did the English public, repulsed by Hopkins' lack of humanity, desert the paper in their droves? For me these are uncomfortable questions that can't be ignored, especially with Hopkins having a Twitter following of over 1 million and rising.

To what degree the Sun and The Mail have tapped into these traits where the Royals are concerned is a matter of personal opinion. Only the editors of these rags, who themselves approve and run these and other 'articles' will truly know their intent, but it's hard not to draw some personal conclusions nonetheless.

[Norman]

14 hours ago, Highgate said:

It would be perfectly natural if you were biased. 

I think the UK would rank highly on a global scale for liberalism, tolerance, and diversity.  But first in all 3?  That's quite an achievement!  More liberal than the Netherlands?, more diverse than Brazil?  And who could rank tolerance without living in a country first.....but are you completely sure the UK is more tolerant than Canada, Finland and New Zealand?

As for historically the most democratic, that's more difficult to assess. No doubt hugely influential and pivotal in the development of parliamentary democracy and the transference of sovereignty from the monarchs to the general population (a bit of a shame it never quite finished the job in that regard, in my opinion). Instrumental in creating democracy as we know it, of that there is no question.  But as an Empire, committed to, in fact often violently committed to preventing other nations from enjoying democracies of their own. That's not to be overlooked.

A complicated legacy.

I think you might have misread. Name a country that is more Liberal, historically democratic, diverse and tolerant than this one. 

They have to tick all those boxes. 

[Norman]

8 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Anyone who actually believes that 'this country is the most liberal, diverse, tolerant, and historically, democratic country in the whole ducking world' clearly has no business sermonising others about 'echo chambers'. We are fortunate to live in what is often a relatively liberal society, no doubt, and in some regards there remains plenty of which to be proud, but such gushing hyperbole are the blinkered rantings of those incapable of critical thinking, nothing more.

As for whether the gutter press tap into some fairly unpleasant public character traits, ask yourself this; when 700 refugees drowned in the med and the Sun gave a platform for the horse-faced hate-mongerer that is Katie Hopkins to espouse that refugees 'are cockroaches, built to survive a nuclear holocaust' and that they should be 'machine-gunned in the water' rather than being allowed to reach British soil, what was the upshot? Did it sell papers or did the English public, repulsed by Hopkins' lack of humanity, desert the paper in their droves? For me these are uncomfortable questions that can't be ignored, especially with Hopkins having a Twitter following of over 1 million and rising.

To what degree the Sun and The Mail have tapped into these traits where the Royals are concerned is a matter of personal opinion. Only the editors of these rags, who themselves approve and run these and other 'articles' will truly know their intent, but it's hard not to draw some personal conclusions nonetheless.

Blah blah blah. 

Name a country that tops us on diversity, liberalism, human rights, historical democracy, tolerance etc etc. 

If you can name 5 countries better than the UK in All of those areas I will stop ranting hyperbole. Or maybe you should. We will find out. 

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

If you can name 5 countries better than the UK in All of those areas I will stop ranting hyperbole.

Really? You'd simply argue that the list was wrong. The measuring factors you defined are suitably vague

Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Netherlands - and that's just Europe

 

[SaintRam]

14 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Really? You'd simply argue that the list was wrong. The measuring factors you defined are suitably vague

Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Netherlands - and that's just Europe

 

Not to say I agree with Norman; because I don't - but you're overvaluing some of Scandinavia.

YouGov (albeit, just a poll) ranked Denmark as the most racist country in northern Europe in 2015; an EU study in 2019 said that Finland was the most racist out of 12 countries (that included Italy). Sweden has the most segregated labour market of people with a foreign background in Europe. Plenty people of the Netherlands still cover themselves in blackface for the feast of St. Nicholas. (these are all just examples; not the extent of their flaws).

You might have a shot with Norway and Iceland though. I've a friend who recently moved to Norway. Seems a lovely place; and people from Iceland just seem so nice.

 

[Stive Pesley]

15 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Not to say I agree with Norman; because I don't - but you're overvaluing some of Scandinavia.

YouGov (albeit, just a poll) ranked Denmark as the most racist country in northern Europe in 2015; an EU study in 2019 said that Finland was the most racist out of 12 countries (that included Italy). Sweden has the most segregated labour market of people with a foreign background in Europe. Plenty people of the Netherlands still cover themselves in blackface for the feast of St. Nicholas. (these are all just examples; not the extent of their flaws).

You might have a shot with Norway and Iceland though. I've a friend who recently moved to Norway. Seems a lovely place; and people from Iceland just seem so nice.

 

Any links to the studies? I'd be interested to know how they measured nationwide racism. I mean, I've been to Denmark multiple times and it seems like the most friendly and inclusive society I've ever witnessed. Would be good to know what lurks beneath

[SaintRam]

On 09/01/2020 at 07:43, AndyinLiverpool said:

We already own those palaces 

Complexly, maybe; the Crown Estate is technically an arm of the government, as the commission that runs it are government officials; but it's actually a little muddled as to who owns what - it's always described as holding property owned by the Queen on her behalf and the owner of Crown Estate is listed as The Crown (currently Queen Elizabeth II). The profits from land owned by Crown Estate do go to the UK treasury; but 15% of it goes to the Monarch.
 

A minority of public residences are owned privately, including Balmoral, the Sandringham estate also. The Monarchy also privately owns two Duchies but I forget which. Although I think you're right in that no palaces are.

 

[SaintRam]

Just now, SchtivePesley said:

Any links to the studies? I'd be interested to know how they measured nationwide racism. I mean, I've been to Denmark multiple times and it seems like the most friendly and inclusive society I've ever witnessed. Would be good to know what lurks beneath

@ me or Dm me sometime after 5pm and I'll dig them out once I'm home.

[AndyinLiverpool]

3 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Complexly, maybe; the Crown Estate is technically an arm of the government, as the commission that runs it are government officials; but it's actually a little muddled as to who owns what - it's always described as holding property owned by the Queen on her behalf and the owner of Crown Estate is listed as The Crown (currently Queen Elizabeth II). The profits from land owned by Crown Estate do go to the UK treasury; but 15% of it goes to the Monarch.
 

A minority of public residences are owned privately, including Balmoral, the Sandringham estate also. The Monarchy also privately owns two Duchies but I forget which. Although I think you're right in that no palaces are.

 

Can I have Buckingham palace the last week of May and beginning of June please?

[SaintRam]

Just now, AndyinLiverpool said:

Can I have Buckingham palace the last week of May and beginning of June please?

Pretty sure the current lease doesn't end for another hundred years ? 

[maxjam]

53 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Really? You'd simply argue that the list was wrong. The measuring factors you defined are suitably vague

Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Netherlands - and that's just Europe

 

I wouldn't say any were better than us, some broadly similar but  as you say the measuring factors would be up for discussion anyway.

 

19 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Any links to the studies? I'd be interested to know how they measured nationwide racism. I mean, I've been to Denmark multiple times and it seems like the most friendly and inclusive society I've ever witnessed. Would be good to know what lurks beneath

No studies but I have a couple of good Swedish friends in a gaming clan I'm in and they tell me that we don't know the half of Swedens problems with immigration.  The media have briefly touched on it but according to them some places are getting really rough;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45181321

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50339977

And I know that Denmark are becming increasingly concerned with immigration.  They also already ban the burqa.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/12/denmark-border-checks-crossings-sweden

https://www.economist.com/europe/2019/06/04/under-left-or-right-denmark-will-get-ever-tougher-with-migrants

https://time.com/5504331/denmark-migrants-lindholm-island/

 

I don't think everything is rosey in the UK, but we don't do to bad and we are one of the better places to live in the world.  All this self loathing that goes on in the media, the perpetual doom and gloom says nothing of the strides we've made and continue to make. 

A bit of positivity once in a while wouldn't detract from the work we still need to do.