Mick Brolly Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Pastinaak said: I can simplify this... Answer these two quick questions: 1. Have you ever looked at what you're wearing and worried that you might get raped because you're showing too much skin? 2. Have you ever worried that you won't be taken seriously in your profession because of your gender? If it's 'no' to both then you're most likely a man and you are benefiting from male privilege. White privilege is exactly the same. I answered yes to number 1 and I'm a white male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said: I answered yes to number 1 and I'm a white male. What were you wearing you slaaaag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Brolly Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said: What were you wearing you slaaaag? F##k all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 3 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: No - the fact you have blatantly misunderstood it, could be deliberate. Or that could just be my prejudice based on knowing that Texas is a state with a disproportionate amount of backwards rednecks (of which I assume you aren't) White privilege is never having to walk into a room of strangers at work and feeling self-conscious about the fact you are the only dark-skinned person there, never having to worry about whether your skin colour will work against you at a job interview, never having to feel like you need to try that little bit harder because you aren't white - and a myriad other things that we take for granted Just because you might have no concept of it, that means it doesn't exist., Nor does it mean you should shut down any conversations about it because it makes you feel uncomfortable. It feels like there are two types of responses to the term "white privilege" - the intelligent response, which is "oh yeah, I'd never thought about that, but actually yes I can now think about it and can see how that might exist. I should at least try and bear that in mind when discussing race issues" and the not-so-intelligent response of "nnngggg NO! gOD! Whyis it?S such a sin top be WHITE TYHES EDAYS~?! i THINK THAT you miTGhT be The Rcaist ASIST"" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriggRam Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 11 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Literally used that term because I couldn't remember his name, and to suggest that what some (you, @Norman, etc) consider frivolous accusations of racism happen on both sides of the divide. What about her is scum? Her belief that Meghan's race is the main factor in the press coverage? The fact that she works for the BBC? The fact that she's a researcher in whatever she's a researcher in? Maybe working for the BBC has institutionalised her to be scum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 11 hours ago, maxjam said: As long as whiteness continues to be used as an insult by lefties Where does that happen? I’ve never used it as an insult. Nor would I ever – because that is stupid. That’s the problem that I spoke of right there though – people taking the very idea of “white privilege” as an insult to them. It’s not. It’s just a way of describing systemic inequality in a majority white country, that by definition is unseen by those who benefit from it. No one is trying to insult anyone – just asking for a bit of self-awareness and empathy. I don’t know why that should be seen as a bad thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Where does that happen? I’ve never used it as an insult. Nor would I ever – because that is stupid. That’s the problem that I spoke of right there though – people taking the very idea of “white privilege” as an insult to them. It’s not. It’s just a way of describing systemic inequality in a majority white country, that by definition is unseen by those who benefit from it. No one is trying to insult anyone – just asking for a bit of self-awareness and empathy. I don’t know why that should be seen as a bad thing If only that were true, then it would not be a problem.. All too often it is used as an insult and something we should be ashamed of. I also don’t believe there is much inequality in this country. I guess there is an argument that any inequality has flipped on its head and now favour of those who felt aggrieved previously. Are we now selecting candidates on their abilities or their gender or colour? That’s probably inequality. What about black privilege that now exists in some countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 57 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Where does that happen? I’ve never used it as an insult. Nor would I ever – because that is stupid. Yeah, but you have. And it is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 26 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: All too often it is used as an insult and something we should be ashamed of. Are you really that insecure? Wow 41 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: I guess there is an argument that any inequality has flipped on its head and now favour of those who felt aggrieved previously. OK - if you ever get chance to discuss that with someone from a disadvantaged minority, let me know and I'll get some popcorn 42 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: What about black privilege that now exists in some countries? Yeah - literally. What about it? It definitely exists - not going to deny that. There are many countries with a white minority, and they will doubtless see the same in reverse. Liberia for example doesn't even allow white people to claim Liberian nationality - even if they were born there. But yeah -what about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Norman said: Yeah, but you have. And it is stupid. Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: Where does that happen? I’ve never used it as an insult. Nor would I ever – because that is stupid. Not you personally, but it is becoming increasingly frequent in society to blame 'white men'. From Jo Swinson saying, ‘six white men stuck in the past, conspiring to wreck our future’ to others casually laying the blame of societies ills as the feet of white men. Examples are common place; https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/15/pale-stale-males-blamed-brexit-trump 'I am hideously white, and not a man but “male”. Being over 50, I suffer the added failing of being disgustingly old. Such are the routine humiliations of my group. The BBC was called hideously white by its former boss Greg Dyke, and the West End stage hideously white by Andrew Lloyd Webber. This week the Football Association was dismissed by critics as a bunch of “old white men”. Note that it is not the BBC or the theatre that is hideous, but their whiteness.' Imagine targetting any other demographic with such langauge, you'd be sacked and hounded out of existence by the twitterati before the end of the day. Ironically, these slurs come largely from the left, the same left that seek the white working class vote they demonize so regularly. How did that work out again? Who, apart from the far-left thought this was a good idea? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-subsidy-for-non-white-members-divisive-and-illegal-l73nmslnb As I said, gift to the Tories. What starts out as well meaning gets co-opted by the left and used to punish their perceived oppressors. Try telling some of the poorest people in the UK, the working class white male he has inherent white privilige, try telling the victims of grooming gangs. Liberally throwing white privilege around and using it to silence a certain demographic of people based on their skin colour is racism and negates a multitude of other factors, most notably class. When someone says 'check your privilege' what they are actaully saying is 'shut your mouth' based on your skin colour and not the content of your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, maxjam said: Not you personally, but it is becoming increasingly frequent in society to blame 'white men'. From Jo Swinson saying, ‘six white men stuck in the past, conspiring to wreck our future’ to others casually laying the blame of societies ills as the feet of white men. Examples are common place; https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/15/pale-stale-males-blamed-brexit-trump 'I am hideously white, and not a man but “male”. Being over 50, I suffer the added failing of being disgustingly old. Such are the routine humiliations of my group. The BBC was called hideously white by its former boss Greg Dyke, and the West End stage hideously white by Andrew Lloyd Webber. This week the Football Association was dismissed by critics as a bunch of “old white men”. Note that it is not the BBC or the theatre that is hideous, but their whiteness.' Imagine targetting any other demographic with such langauge, you'd be sacked and hounded out of existence by the twitterati before the end of the day. Ironically, these slurs come largely from the left, the same left that seek the white working class vote they demonize so regularly. How did that work out again? Who, apart from the far-left thought this was a good idea? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-subsidy-for-non-white-members-divisive-and-illegal-l73nmslnb As I said, gift to the Tories. What starts out as well meaning gets co-opted by the left and used to punish their perceived oppressors. Try telling some of the poorest people in the UK, the working class white male he has inherent white privilige, try telling the victims of grooming gangs. Liberally throwing white privilege around and using it to silence a certain demographic of people based on their skin colour is racism and negates a multitude of other factors, most notably class. When someone says 'check your privilege' what they are actaully saying is 'shut your mouth' based on your skin colour and not the content of your argument. All of this is a criticism of the way the argument is presented, rather than the concept itself. What do you actually think about the concept of 'white privilege'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: 51 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Are you really that insecure? Wow Don’t think I have ever been called insecure. If someone wants to attack, I will defend. Do you know what insecure means? 8 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: OK - if you ever get chance to discuss that with someone from a disadvantaged minority, let me know and I'll get some popcorn Do you deny it happens then? Hmmm denial right there. 9 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: 55 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Yeah - literally. What about it? It definitely exists - not going to deny that. There are many countries with a white minority, and they will doubtless see the same in reverse. Liberia for example doesn't even allow white people to claim Liberian nationality - even if they were born there. But yeah -what about it? ‘Yeah literally’ You sound like a 10 year old. Who says it just happens in black majority countries? Goes back to my second point about inequalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, maxjam said: When someone says 'check your privilege' what they are actaully saying is 'shut your mouth' based on your skin colour and not the content of your argument Well, no – it’s just another way of them saying they think you are wrong and that you should reconsider your view. That’s kind of how arguments work. It doesn’t make you a victim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: All of this is a criticism of the way the argument is presented, rather than the concept itself. What do you actually think about the concept of 'white privilege'? The problem with the whole argument however is that it has been co-opted by the left and presented in a way to silence people based on immutable characteristics. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/05/bursaries-might-help-but-not-if-they-label-poor-boys-white-working-class What I think of white privilege is neither here nor there, I just observe the whole identity politics circus with scepticism and look at the real world damage its doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Don’t think I have ever been called insecure. If someone wants to attack, I will defend Who attacked you? The notion of being made to feel ashamed of your "whiteness" is all in your head. Like I said - an insecurity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, maxjam said: What I think of white privilege is neither here nor there What a massive cop out! It's the point being discussed. If all you're bothered about is the way the argument is presented, but you aren't actually bothered about the concept, then that tells it's own story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: What a massive cop out! It's the point being discussed. If all you're bothered about is the way the argument is presented, but you aren't actually bothered about the concept, then that tells it's own story No, I've put my argument forwards several times in the past few posts. The whole furore surrounding 'white privilege' is another example of identity politics and virtue signalling - just another well meaning idea that has been co-opted by the far-left. Does that mean I don't think racism etc exists? No, of course it doesn't. But I do believe its doing far more harm than good and until lefties break out from their oppression olympics social media bubble they will never win an election ever again - which was my 'gift to the Tories' main point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Racism: a term thrown into an argument by left wingers when losing a debate online White privilege: a term thrown into an argument by left wingers when losing a debate online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Angry Ram said: If only that were true, then it would not be a problem.. All too often it is used as an insult and something we should be ashamed of. I also don’t believe there is much inequality in this country. I guess there is an argument that any inequality has flipped on its head and now favour of those who felt aggrieved previously. Are we now selecting candidates on their abilities or their gender or colour? That’s probably inequality. What about black privilege that now exists in some countries? You're wrong to focus on the idea of the phrase being insulting. I couldn't care less if insane ideologues obsessed with skin colour wanted to insult me based on my innate characteristics. What does concern me is that the vast majority of people who use this phrase openly advocate for "positive discrimination", which is plain old discrimination to normal people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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