GboroRam Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 27 minutes ago, TramRam said: There'll be some who will find a fault...not on here but in the USA. Fault? There's folks who would literally run you out of town with semi automatic weapons for talking about your Socialist ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 It's very hard to get away from the argument for UBI, especially in the aftermath of CV. I suppose the big issue initially will be whether those who can find work with relative ease will be prepared to vote for a government who props up those who can't. The economic fallout from the pandemic will also be key to the viability of any UBI scheme. Longer term, with job losses running into many millions and AI and automation putting millions more out of work, we either brace ourselves for an increasingly disenfranchised and desperate underclass, with all the problems that will bring, or we bite the bullet and say yes to higher rates of tax, especially the super-wealthy who unfortunately have not always been keen to pay their share. On a more positive note, UBI may also stimulate small businesses and start-ups too, which could be of major long term benefit but it's hard to quantify until someone takes the plunge and runs a pilot scheme of meaningful scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I think we had a thread on UBI here at one point. Not sure if it got closed when the big shutdown of politics happened? Certainly interesting and the theory has a lot of positives. I'd really like to see it trialled more widely, but I do have a few concerns about it My biggest one is that, under a UBI scenario - if someone still ends up poor through their own bad choices then there will be far fewer sympathetic voices willing to help them. And I'm talking about vulnerable people with mental health issues, addictions etc It won't be a quick fix for society , but it could definitely be a handy shove in the right direction that needs careful planning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Longer term, with job losses running into many millions and AI and automation putting millions more out of work, we either brace ourselves for an increasingly disenfranchised and desperate underclass, with all the problems that will bring, or we bite the bullet and say yes to higher rates of tax, especially the super-wealthy who unfortunately have not always been keen to pay their share. Have you listened to Joe Rogan's latest podcast with Elon Musk? They talked about the development of the Neurolink (a device inserted into the head that makes us smarter and 10x more productive), which obviously sounds interesting but Musk completely avoided Rogan's question about how it might lead to the rich buying them and furthering the wealth and class divided even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 In my opinion we ought to move to a system where we have UBI and one flat rate of tax for the money earned from employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: It's very hard to get away from the argument for UBI, especially in the aftermath of CV. I suppose the big issue initially will be whether those who can find work with relative ease will be prepared to vote for a government who props up those who can't. The economic fallout from the pandemic will also be key to the viability of any UBI scheme. Longer term, with job losses running into many millions and AI and automation putting millions more out of work, we either brace ourselves for an increasingly disenfranchised and desperate underclass, with all the problems that will bring, or we bite the bullet and say yes to higher rates of tax, especially the super-wealthy who unfortunately have not always been keen to pay their share. On a more positive note, UBI may also stimulate small businesses and start-ups too, which could be of major long term benefit but it's hard to quantify until someone takes the plunge and runs a pilot scheme of meaningful scale. Was it Norway or Iceland or another Nordic Country that tried this?, 2 years of UBI or some similar ilk then it was pulled for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Have you listened to Joe Rogan's latest podcast with Elon Musk? They talked about the development of the Neurolink (a device inserted into the head that makes us smarter and 10x more productive), which obviously sounds interesting but Musk completely avoided Rogan's question about how it might lead to the rich buying them and furthering the wealth and class divided even more. Can't say I have to be honest. Sounds utterly grim. I'd pay good money not to have one! Perhaps a % of the unit cost could pooled to help offset the cost of UBI for the underclasses and those folk whose only goals are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Didn't Musk opine that we're all 'almost certainly' living in some matrix-style simulation anyway? Can't we just upgrade our connection if that's the case ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, TramRam said: Was it Norway or Iceland or another Nordic Country that tried this?, 2 years of UBI or some similar ilk then it was pulled for some reason I think quite a few nations have trialled it though to what scale I'm unsure. I thought one or more of the Scandowegian states actually maintained it but perhaps I'm mistaken. Norway or Denmark maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: I think quite a few nations have trialled it though to what scale I'm unsure. I thought one or more of the Scandowegian states actually maintained it but perhaps I'm mistaken. Norway or Denmark maybe? Finland https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47169549 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, TramRam said: Thanks for the reply. Starting with Universal Basic Income could work for those who find life financially very difficult, Have money, spend money, Economically communities are better off, White goods shops open, Furniture shops open, Bigger supermarkets, Healthier Children, Health and Care on the up, Less crime, Families not breaking up, Children now see an opportunity to progress, Depravity eradicated...Sounds OK to me. There'll be some who will find a fault...not on here but in the USA. What size of payment are we looking at to make the above achievable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, jimmyp said: What size of payment are we looking at to make the above achievable? Send a request here. Who will then message these. Who could release these. Best I can do i'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, TramRam said: Send a request here. Who will then message these. Then do what they say. Though this is a more realistic scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 "Former White House chief of staff John Kelly said Friday that he did not agree with President Donald Trump’s threat to deploy active-duty U.S. military at protests." “The troops hate it, they don’t see it as their job, they don’t want to be used in that way,” Kelly told Anthony Scaramucci, former White House communications director, during a livestreamed interview. i am pretty much as anti military as one can get, but this statement by retired Marine Corps general John Kelly is absurd and he damn well knows it too. A soldier does what he is told, he has no opinion, he is a weapon. You don't ask your shotgun where to aim it. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/john-kelly-criticizes-trump-threat-to-use-armed-forces-on-protests.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 On 04/06/2020 at 20:04, maxjam said: Year on year Blacks also kill far more Whites than Whites kill Blacks (once again despite being only a fraction of the population). Furthermore Black on Black violence is also shockingly high. Just a technical point. The fact that they are a fraction of the population has no baring at all on that statistic. If all homicides were just random events the you would expect the figures to come out close to equal (as many Black on White killings as White on Black), despite there being far fewer Black people than White. Having fewer number to commit the killings also means having fewer potential victims. The fact that poverty leads to higher crimes rates isn't really in dispute at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 All you attention-seeking fakes can just sit down now. MJ's just put the virtue signalling bar completely out of reach. Honestly, the poo some folk will pull just to remain relevant! ? From BBC Sport Michael Jordan says he will donate $100m (£78m) to groups fighting for racial equality and social justice. The NBA legend said in a statement that he and his Jordan Brand would distribute the money over 10 years. The money will go to a number of organisations in a bid to tackle "ingrained racism". It comes in the wake of protests breaking out across the US and around the world following the death of George Floyd as he was restrained by police. Floyd, an unarmed black man, died on 25 May after a white police officer, since charged with murder, knelt on his neck for over eight minutes. I'm actually thinking of dropping him a text to let him know that, according to our in-house experts, there's no systemic racism in the US and he should save his money. Full article here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/52944161 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Another Instamuppet opinion-chucking on the BLM movement here ? Aleksandar Katai cut by LA Galaxy over wife's 'racist and violent' Instagram posts Serbian released by Galaxy after wife’s racist Instagram posts Tea Katai mocked protests related to killing of George Floyd The Instagram posts made by Tea Katai on Tuesday, which have since been deleted, mocked protests related to the killing of George Floyd while in police custody in Minneapolis last week. One image showed a police SUV attempting to drive through protesters in New York. A caption in Serbian read, “Kill the poops!” while a second showed a picture of an individual carrying boxes of Nikes with the caption “Black Nikes Matter”. Her husband Aleksander, who had only just joined the club remarked, 'ah well, ya know, that's just Tea. She can sure can crack a funny, huh! She's not really a racist though, like all these folk are saying, she just hates black people and likes to say shitty things about anybody with different skin pigmentation to her. She doesn't mean it though and she once knew a guy who wasn't white, so she can't be a racist, right?' * *He didn't really, I just made that poo up. He actually seems like a decent human being, unlike his bilious, crackpot wife. Full story here: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jun/05/aleksandar-katai-wife-racist-social-media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Where's the threat? This guy is 75 years old ffs. Is this what Trump wanted when he screeched about law enforcement needing to be 'much tougher'? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52945190 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Not alot as changed in 100years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 33 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Where's the threat? This guy is 75 years old ffs. Is this what Trump wanted when he screeched about law enforcement needing to be 'much tougher'? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52945190 Obstructing the police in the performance of their duties is what it's called i believe. A threat? No, just in their way when they want to perform some mass beating up of folks on the other side of that unfortunate old fella. That's why 57 of that police team resigned from that task force, because 2 of them were suspended for doing what they are taught to do in police academy. Minneapolis council members are considering disbanding their police force and rebuilding it from scratch, because it's too broken to fix. Let that sink in. https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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