ramit Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: you could agree or disagree with the likes of Thatcher or Blair, but I don't think they were ever accused of being incompetent politicians. Tony Blair did more international damage than any other British PM i can think of. He took the country to war in Iraq based on a shameless lie, a lie he has never apologized for. He lied to his parliament and the general public. Hundreds of thousands perished, the country is in ruins, infrastructure in shambles, etc. The attacks on Libya were another example of his devotion to being a lapdog for a foreign power, the USA. Libya had the highest standard of living in Africa and is now a playground for competing powerhouses, a ruined country. Not incompetent? Okay, a criminal then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: Trump is on a different level I agree, but that is our view, millions of Americans (including some quite "normal" ones of my acquaintance" think he's great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 27 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: The same way that me asking for evidence of racist attacks on nearly a hundred Chinese students is attacking you personally. Sorry if it feels like a personal attack if certain posters have called my wife a liar and are STILL bringing it up 2 months later, apropos of nothing. 30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Theres only one reason you brought white males into the conversation Why is that? I have no idea what you are on about. I just apologised for saying white, when I meant "non-grooming gang". What's the problem there? Smokescreen? You've lost me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Uptherams said: Everyone is suffering. It doesn't matter if 99% of people who don't have a garden are black or white. The outcome for decisions should be the same regarding the lockdown. Agreed - and I never said otherwise. A person's race does not make their suffering any more or less important. On that we agree My point was that there is no reason to ignore the factors that lead to certain races being disproportionately affected. Thankfully I've just been informed by Max that it's because they are all thick illegal immigrants and they should expect no less. Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Agreed - and I never said otherwise. A person's race does not make their suffering any more or less important. On that we agree My point was that there is no reason to ignore the factors that lead to certain races being disproportionately affected. Thankfully I've just been informed by Max that it's because they are all thick illegal immigrants and they should expect no less. Nice More than half of the black population of the UK live in London.. The premise of that article is to cause division. Despite it having some good information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Agreed - and I never said otherwise. A person's race does not make their suffering any more or less important. On that we agree My point was that there is no reason to ignore the factors that lead to certain races being disproportionately affected. Thankfully I've just been informed by Max that it's because they are all thick illegal immigrants and they should expect no less. Nice Many years ago i wrote our most socialism leaning local politician an email. Soon after i was invited to be interviewed by two young aspiring politicians in the Left Green party for a thorough inquiry on my views, with the aim of possibly recruiting me to work for the party. i had no desire to join the party, but attended the meeting out of curiosity. One of numerous questions was my opinion on the plight of poor African Americans and how it could be addressed. i told them that poor people, no matter their race were all in the same boat, downtrodden with little hope of improving their lives, not just in America but all throughout this capitalist world and that poverty needed to be challenged on a human basis first and foremost. The young woman and man, who now are parliament members rolled their eyes and after trying to sway me to the "right opinion" gave up on this seeming lunatic and ended the interview. i learned a lot, but they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, ramit said: Tony Blair did more international damage than any other British PM i can think of. He took the country to war in Iraq based on a shameless lie, a lie he has never apologized for. He lied to his parliament and the general public. Hundreds of thousands perished, the country is in ruins, infrastructure in shambles, etc. The attacks on Libya were another example of his devotion to being a lapdog for a foreign power, the USA. Libya had the highest standard of living in Africa and is now a playground for competing powerhouses, a ruined country. Not incompetent? Okay, a criminal then. David Cameron played a major part in the overthrow of Gadaffi and thus Libya's destabilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eatonram Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, 1of4 said: David Cameron played a major part in the overthrow of Gadaffi and thus Libya's destabilization. 24 minutes ago, ramit said: Tony Blair did more international damage than any other British PM i can think of. He took the country to war in Iraq based on a shameless lie, a lie he has never apologized for. He lied to his parliament and the general public. Hundreds of thousands perished, the country is in ruins, infrastructure in shambles, etc. The attacks on Libya were another example of his devotion to being a lapdog for a foreign power, the USA. Libya had the highest standard of living in Africa and is now a playground for competing powerhouses, a ruined country. Not incompetent? Okay, a criminal then. What attacks on Libya?? Talk about letting your prejudice get the better of you. Our involvement in Libya was under the Cameron Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, 1of4 said: David Cameron played a major part in the overthrow of Gadaffi and thus Libya's destabilization. You mean the Arab Spring him and Obama championed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, 1of4 said: David Cameron played a major part in the overthrow of Gadaffi and thus Libya's destabilization. correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 14, 2020 Author Share Posted May 14, 2020 38 minutes ago, Eatonram said: Dozens/Hundreds?? Surely this argument is immoral at best. Lets say it was dozens. It is still disgusting or don't you agree? Yes agree it is disgusting...if true "paedo ring"? You sound like Tommy Robinson. But of course you can "think" whatever you wish, but as you acknowledge your thoughts are based on seeing absolutely no information. Your motive is as transparent as a pain of glass and that is to politically attack Keir Starmer. You know it, I know it, every one on the board knows it. Oh God, didnt take long for someone to throw a completely irrelevant Tommy Robinson into the debate did it. Of course my motive was to question Keir Starmer when another poster was trying to talk him up as white than white. Actually think Starmer comes across quite well, looks a very accomplished character. He has soon reneged on his comment about working with the Government though hasnt he? Although I actually feel slightly sorry for him on this as he is in a no win situation...a bit like plenty of all other politicians right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, Eatonram said: What attacks on Libya?? Talk about letting your prejudice get the better of you. Our involvement in Libya was under the Cameron Government. You are correct, i was in error, it was Cameron. Leading Britain to an endless war in Afhanistan should have been the second example. Another country in shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Of course my motive was to question Keir Starmer when another poster was trying to talk him up as white than white. Actually think Starmer comes across quite well, looks a very accomplished character. He has soon reneged on his comment about working with the Government though hasnt he? Although I actually feel slightly sorry for him on this as he is in a no win situation...a bit like plenty of all other politicians right now. The attempt to smear Starmer over the events surrounding the grooming gangs, is a typical right-wing move. They can't defend their own failings and lies, when questioned. So try to discredit the person asking the questions. As for Starmer reneging on his working with the government. He as clearly stated he will help in providing support in this time of crisis. What he won't do is allow the country to be lied to by Johnson and his government. So if pulling up the government, over their failings and lies, is seen as reneging on his offer of help. Then I have no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 57 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Thankfully I've just been informed by Max that it's because they are all thick illegal immigrants and they should expect no less. Nice There you go, always taking the most extreme example and twisting my words to insinuate something else and quite frankly something nasty. It says more about you than it does me ? If for example you've come to the UK from wherever for a better life the chances are you haven't had much access to education previously, certainly higher education needed for better paying jobs - therefore you are more likely to end up in low skilled, low paid work and less likely to be able to afford accomodation with a garden (as per the Sky article). As the number of Black people in the UK is relatively low to begin with (just 2m as per the 2011 census) it takes a relatively small number of new unskilled immigrants entering the country to have an effect the statistics. Assuming the Tories manage to restrict low skilled immigration surely overtime this will have the opposite effect and drag the average Black or BAME wage up? Whilst also having the added benefit of pushing the native low skilled or workshy population into employment. A lot of the problems we have in the UK are imo less to do with white privilege and more to do with uncontrolled immigration/economics. If you flood the market with cheap labour its going to be no surprise when the immigrants occupy the bottom rungs of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 14, 2020 Author Share Posted May 14, 2020 59 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Sorry if it feels like a personal attack if certain posters have called my wife a liar and are STILL bringing it up 2 months later, apropos of nothing Not a personal attack on you then. Not called your wife a liar, just wondering if there is any evidence out there to prove the story has not been exaggerated. Why is that? I have no idea what you are on about. I just apologised for saying white, when I meant "non-grooming gang". What's the problem there? Smokescreen? You've lost me You got the words 'non grooming gang' and 'white' mixed up? ? I really have heard it all now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, 1of4 said: The attempt to smear Starmer over the events surrounding the grooming gangs, is a typical right-wing move. They can't defend their own failings and lies, when questioned. So try to discredit the person asking the questions. As for Starmer reneging on his working with the government. He as clearly stated he will help in providing support in this time of crisis. What he won't do is allow the country to be lied to by Johnson and his government. So if pulling up the government, over their failings and lies, is seen as reneging on his offer of help. Then I have no problem with that. The Tories - including MPs - who re-tweeted the nonsense have now deleted the evidence - but of course, the message has been duly transmitted to the dimwits. As intended, and as the last couple of pages of this thread indicate. Although horse muck doesn't normally fall far from the hindquarters, there are plenty who are willing to wade in knee-deep, pick it up and throw it far and wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 14, 2020 Author Share Posted May 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, 1of4 said: The attempt to smear Starmer over the events surrounding the grooming gangs, is a typical right-wing move. They can't defend their own failings and lies, when questioned. So try to discredit the person asking the questions. As for Starmer reneging on his working with the government. He as clearly stated he will help in providing support in this time of crisis. What he won't do is allow the country to be lied to by Johnson and his government. So if pulling up the government, over their failings and lies, is seen as reneging on his offer of help. Then I have no problem with that. It's not a smear, it was just an opinion on how he handled something. I have no problem with him holding the Government to account either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 14, 2020 Author Share Posted May 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Eddie said: The Tories - including MPs - who re-tweeted the nonsense have now deleted the evidence - but of course, the message has been duly transmitted to the dimwits. As intended, and as the last couple of pages of this thread indicate. Although horse muck doesn't normally fall far from the hindquarters, there are plenty who are willing to wade in knee-deep, pick it up and throw it far and wide. @Angry Ram another one for your list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: It's not a smear, it was just an opinion on how he handled something. I have no problem with him holding the Government to account either. So in your opinion as Sharmer reneged on his offer to work with the government in this current crisis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 14, 2020 Author Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, 1of4 said: So in your opinion as Sharmer reneged on his offer to work with the government in this current crisis? I wouldn't know what is going on behind the scenes but the actions of yesterday would not really show him as being cooperative. As I've said though, I have no problem with him holding the Government to account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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