The Politics Thread 2020

[Uptherams]

1 hour ago, 1of4 said:

Your opinion seem to closely follow the tweets, or horse muck throwing as @Eddie succinctly put it, of a number of Tories. But it was a smear, so thats ok.

What a twist. Keir now with favour among the activits. Give it a few months and he'll be nasty new Labour again ??

[G STAR RAM]

40 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

It's ok everyone, I've found the "evidence" of how Starmer failed us in his investigations of child grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/14/labour-urges-tory-mps-to-admit-keir-starmer-video-was-doctored

I dont know why you would have to look through newspaper articles for evidence.

Just look at the stats on the number of girls that were systematically groomed, drugged and raped even after there was masses of evidence of it happening but it was decided not to pursue the cases.

[ramit]

7 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

What you said:

You are correct, i was in error, it was Cameron.  Leading Britain to an endless war in Afhanistan should have been the second example.  Another country in shambles.

What you would have said if you were genuinely humble and avoided whataboutery.

You are correct, i was in error, it was Cameron. Sorry.

You're not going to just let this go are you ?

[G STAR RAM]

59 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

We are all still waiting to hear more about his terrible failings in prosecuting child grooming gangs. The Times article was hardly critical of the job he did. I was expecting loads of articles posted about his awful performance in the role. Maybe they've been taken down, like the Tory MPs tweets on the subject.

Far from saying he was whiter than white, I was actually responding to a post that said lawyers = liars. I said that the negative opinions towards liars tend to be those who get dodgy people and companies to avoid justice, rather than those who are prosecutors.

Turns out you think Starmer "comes across quite well, and looks a very accomplished character". Which was my original point, comparing him to your guy Johnson, who is looking more hopeless by the day.

What's that you say? Johnson isn't "your guy" and actually you don't think he is much good anyway? You just defend him, well, because one person has too? And it's a good way to get into never ending circular arguments about racism or identity politics or something that everyone gets pretty bored of pretty quickly.

I get it. You Brexiteers are looking at the current mess and are thinking what if Brexit turns out to be something similar. Well it's probably going too unfortunately. The horse you backed is a liar and incompetent. And that was perfectly obvious a long time ago. 

My guy Johnson? Nah not really. Only voted for him (a) because I wanted Brexit sorted and (b) because there was no viable alternative...all in my opinion of course.

I may have backed a horse that is a liar, just a shame that his opponent was a donkey who couldn't beat an egg.

[Bob The Badger]

3 minutes ago, ramit said:

The war in Afghanistan was authorized by UN because no one with veto power had the guts to stand up to the USA.  

So Russia and China both lacked the guts to stand up to the US?

Okkkkkkkk.

Because that happens a lot.

Do you even know who the permanent members are?

 

 

 

[Bob The Badger]

2 minutes ago, ramit said:

You're not going to just let this go are you ?

Keep with the laughing emojis and people may forget what may actually said.

[1of4]

7 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

What a twist. Keir now with favour among the activits. Give it a few months and he'll be nasty new Labour again ??

Is he! I wouldn't have had you down as an in the know Momentum member.

[ramit]

6 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Keep with the laughing emojis and people may forget what may actually said.

Are you done now?  Oh, i see you have an ego need to have the last word eh.

Damn, i ruined it.

Your turn and get ready for an emoji ?

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I dont know why you would have to look through newspaper articles for evidence.

Just look at the stats on the number of girls that were systematically groomed, drugged and raped even after there was masses of evidence of it happening but it was decided not to pursue the cases.

Nobody is trying to argue that the victims weren't failed and that the whole situation isn't totally horrific, at least not from what I can see. 

That doesn't alter the fact that Conservative MP's have been caught red handed sharing falsehoods about the leader of the opposition on social media.

One of these incidents doesn't erase the other. One is a travesty of justice symptomatic of a top to bottom failure of that system and the other is yet another example of spiteful political mud-slinging that serves no purpose other to blur the lines between what is true and what is false. 

[ramit]

21 minutes ago, Eddie said:

As Frank Zappa once said, "Everyone in this room is wearing a uniform, and don't kid yourselves".

My uniform must look strange then, as i don't seem to fit correctly under any current political persuasion.

Thanks for responding, i was worried you had put me on ignore, something that would've sincerely broken my heart.

i like you, Eddie.  You can be a bit of a bull in a china shop, but i often agree with your views, as you know.

[Bob The Badger]

1 minute ago, ramit said:

Are you done now?  Oh, i see you have an ego need to have the last word eh.

Damn, i ruined it.

Your turn and get ready for an emoji ?

 

Oops, you missed this.

So Russia and China both lacked the guts to stand up to the US?

Okkkkkkkk.

Because that happens a lot.

Do you even know who the permanent members are?

[ramit]

2 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

 

Oops, you missed this.

So Russia and China both lacked the guts to stand up to the US?

Okkkkkkkk.

Because that happens a lot.

Do you even know who the permanent members are?

i know that you seem to be a floater?

[Eddie]

20 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

So Russia and China both lacked the guts to stand up to the US?

Okkkkkkkk.

Because that happens a lot.

Do you even know who the permanent members are?

 

 

 

In 2001, Russia was still emerging from the turmoil of the break-up of the Soviet Union, and China certainly wasn't the world power it is seen to be now.

In those days, the USA said "Jump" and most of her allies said "How high, Mr Dubya, sir?", as opposed to nowadays when they just laugh (with the exception of Britain, of course). There was also still a huge amount of sympathy regarding 9/11

[Bob The Badger]

4 minutes ago, ramit said:

i know that you seem to be a floater?

Incredible put down. 

I feel foolish now for getting involved with a political savant and a comedic genius. Sorry. 

[Angry Ram]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

I certainly think that the country as a whole made a stupid decision, and the fact that the likes of Britain First and other lunatics were vehement supporters of Brexit seemed to do a little more than imply that racism was the motive behind some people supporting the decision to leave.

I believe at the time that I said "All racists are Brexiteers, but not all Brexiteers are racist".

 

You have a right to your opinion, no issues with that but let’s Just say your communication skills are zero.

Work on that and people might actually take in what you are trying to say.. Leave out the vitriol.. The content might be interesting but the delivery is rubbish.

[ramit]

5 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Incredible put down. 

I feel foolish now for getting involved with a political savant and a comedic genius. Sorry. 

We all make mistakes, apology accepted, good buddy

Oh, was that perhaps a lackluster attempt at sarcasm?

It's all good, i forgive you anyway for badgering me

Shake on it then?  i will shake mine if you shake yours

[Bob The Badger]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

In 2001, Russia was still emerging from the turmoil of the break-up of the Soviet Union, and China certainly wasn't the world power it is seen to be now.

In those days, the USA said "Jump" and most of her allies said "How high, Mr Dubya, sir?", as opposed to nowadays when they just laugh (with the exception of Britain, of course). There was also still a huge amount of sympathy regarding 9/11

Not true at all it was 12 or 13 years later .

You do know we're talking about a UN resolution right? 

This has zero to do with the emerging Soviet Union. 

I mean seriously wtf? it's like arguing over bed time. 

[RamNut]

On 13/05/2020 at 10:18, ariotofmyown said:

Moving Coronavirus patients to care homes looks to be a much more serious problem than 'alertgate', yet have seen much less news or comment on this.

It was bloody criminal and the information black out continues, which is also unforgivable.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Nobody is trying to argue that the victims weren't failed and that the whole situation isn't totally horrific, at least not from what I can see. 

That doesn't alter the fact that Conservative MP's have been caught red handed sharing falsehoods about the leader of the opposition on social media.

One of these incidents doesn't erase the other. One is a travesty of justice symptomatic of a top to bottom failure of that system and the other is yet another example of spiteful political mud-slinging that serves no purpose other to blur the lines between what is true and what is false. 

Think there are some crossed wires somewhere. Only just read the news and about these tweets. I've certainly never referenced them and it appears that the perpetrators have correctly been reprimanded for it.

[Eatonram]

2 hours ago, ramit said:

i wish i was too young to remember Thatcher actually.  Consider the horror story that was and is Iraq a weightier example, but to each their own opinion.  i find the first part of your response therefor ineffective and rather tediously condescending, but to each their own sense of classy comebacks.

Guts i have never lacked, nor humility when found to be in error, a trait i most heartily recommend, yet often see a deficiency of.  i corrected myself by stating that the second example should not have been Libya, but rather Afghanistan.  That is not whataboutery at all.

Ramit, you said this (bold above) a couple of hours ago and then spent all subsequent hours proving that deficiency lies with yourself. A little self awareness might be useful.

Foreign Policy is a minefield for almost every Government. UK History is littered with what hindsight showed to be unwise, in some cases disastrous foreign interventions (Suez?). It goes with the territory of being PM that these decisions have to be  made at the time. Iraq or Afghanistan would almost certainly never have happened if it wasn't for 9/11. As I think as has already been mentioned, in the post 9/11 geopolitical environment, the UK, whichever PM, whichever Party, was always going to have succumbed to pressure from the USA to stand by them in responding to what was perceived as a threat.

You choose to lay the blame at the feet of Tony Blair, well that is your choice, but at least get your facts right about how events unfolded, and in the case of Afghanistan, that was a UN decision.