The Politics Thread 2020

[ramesses]

22 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Hmmm ?

Whatever our feelings about the press, I'm not sure that gagging them is s terribly sensible course of action. The Government seemed quite happy with the same press labelling Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser and worse, yet when the very same microscope is turned on their own ranks, we are told they are not to be trusted.

A free and unfettered press lies at the heart of any democracy so this latest development does give significant cause for concern.

It says at the end, “This is dangerous territory, not least from a government led by a prime minister who made his career as a journalist.”

However, they need to remember that Johnson made his career by being an extremely one-sided journalist who used the media as a political weapon to massively promote himself and undermine previous Tory PMs and cabinet ministers.

I suspect that at least a part of the government’s ‘war on the media’ is Johnson making sure that none of the populist right wing misfits that make up his ERG cabinet will find it quite as easy to play the same game he did.

[King Kevin]

1 hour ago, Van Wolfie said:

Yeah, sorry I wasn't having a dig. The point I was trying (badly) to make is that, with tests only available to "essential worker" families containing those who are showing symptoms, there's a limited pool of eligible people.

I'm not really surprised that they can't fill the capacity on that basis.

No worries ,didn't think about it that way .

[1967Ram]

41 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Apparently the Panorama episode last night didn’t paint a good picture of the reporting.

Not seen it, just heard the lads on about it this morning.

Reporting the amount of gloves purchased as single gloves not pairs, dropping the rating of the virus down so there response measures don’t look so bad?

I’ll watch it on iPlayer tonight I think. 

I watched it and it didn't. Coronavirus was downgraded six weeks ago from a 'High consequence infectious disease'. It was pointed out that this meant less PPE was needed.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

This really grinds my gears  So what if they don’t reach it, they are trying their best to get there. What do you want of them, to do nothing? I am sure they are all sitting there chuffed to bits that they may not get there. Still better to try and fail than not try at all. 
They set an ambitious target, good on them.. If they get to 70,000 in extremely difficult circumstances, then so be it. We can try and reach the 100,000 sometime next month. Its like you people get some sort of satisfaction that they don’t reach it, well good for you. 
You can wait till Thursday to wallow in your smugness. 

Also probably the reason the Government are not setting out plans for exiting lockdown. 

[1of4]

I'm not bothered if the government's target for the number of tests carried out is or isn't achieved.

I just want the government to do what they say, to be transparent in their actions. If they can't reach the testing targets,that's fine, just put their hand up and admit it. 

Stop putting spin on it, like they are also doing with the PPE numbers.

[Wolfie]

56 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

I just want the government to do what they say, to be transparent in their actions. If they can't reach the testing targets,that's fine, just put their hand up and admit it.

When have you ever known a politician admit defeat 2 days before a deadline?.

Who is to say the magic 100k figure won't be hit on Thursday?

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

2 hours ago, Van Wolfie said:

When have you ever known a politician admit defeat 2 days before a deadline?.

Who is to say the magic 100k figure won't be hit on Thursday?

Double barrel names to be counted as 2 people. Maiden and married name also counted separately.

Don't worry mate they'll get there...

[Tamworthram]

7 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

This really grinds my gears  So what if they don’t reach it, they are trying their best to get there. What do you want of them, to do nothing? I am sure they are all sitting there chuffed to bits that they may not get there. Still better to try and fail than not try at all. 
They set an ambitious target, good on them.. If they get to 70,000 in extremely difficult circumstances, then so be it. We can try and reach the 100,000 sometime next month. Its like you people get some sort of satisfaction that they don’t reach it, well good for you. 
You can wait till Thursday to wallow in your smugness. 

Couldn't agree more.

I think there are plenty waiting to almost celebrate if/when the target isn't hit. Our old favourite the Daily Mail have a count down "2 days to go etc" each day. I'm certain they'll be mightily disappointed if somehow the target is achieved.

[1967Ram]

9 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

This really grinds my gears  So what if they don’t reach it, they are trying their best to get there. What do you want of them, to do nothing? I am sure they are all sitting there chuffed to bits that they may not get there. Still better to try and fail than not try at all. 
They set an ambitious target, good on them.. If they get to 70,000 in extremely difficult circumstances, then so be it. We can try and reach the 100,000 sometime next month. Its like you people get some sort of satisfaction that they don’t reach it, well good for you. 
You can wait till Thursday to wallow in your smugness. 

What I don't understand is this apparent necessity for numerical targets. Surely a much better target would have been something like, 'By the end of April we want to ensure that everyone who needs to be tested, including key and essential workers with symptoms, are tested'. I mean we even had a bloody numerical 'good result for deaths from coronavirus' target! Less said about that the better.

There's a time and a place for numerical target setting, but not every time and every place needs numerical target setting.

[Ghost of Clough]

4 hours ago, Van Wolfie said:

When have you ever known a politician admit defeat 2 days before a deadline?.

Who is to say the magic 100k figure won't be hit on Thursday?

I expect around 60k reported tests tomorrow followed by close to 100k on the 30th. A considerable drop in the first before gradually increasing back to 100k by the 10th. 

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, 1967Ram said:

What I don't understand is this apparent necessity for numerical targets. Surely a much better target would have been something like, 'By the end of April we want to ensure that everyone who needs to be tested, including key and essential workers with symptoms, are tested'. I mean we even had a bloody numerical 'good result for deaths from coronavirus' target! Less said about that the better.

There's a time and a place for numerical target setting, but not every time and every place needs numerical target setting.

Way of the world now I’m afraid. I agree, a time and place. 

I don’t think the muppets in the main stream media would have let the government get away with that sort of declaration though.. It’s all about the blame game and they want facts where there are none. Gotcha questions are the standard now.

[Guest]

Away from Coronavirus and Trump, 2 things that have caught my eye in the last few days:-

1 - Government refuse to release findings from the review of grooming gang characteristics, claiming it is not in the public interest. Surely if they want is to be able to protect our children from such things it must be in the public interest to know any tell tale signs? Absolutely shocking decision.

2 - Saw some shocking footage of 2 knife attacks in the West Midlands over the weekend. It appears that the message is still not getting across. Is it time to increase the punishment for carrying a knife?

[1967Ram]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Way of the world now I’m afraid. I agree, a time and place. 

I don’t think the muppets in the main stream media would have let the government get away with that sort of declaration though.. It’s all about the blame game and they want facts where there are none. Gotcha questions are the standard now.

Very true, unfortunately

[Pearl Ram]

Sorry, can’t provide the duckin’ link from Sky news.

please ignore.

 

 

[Bob The Badger]

If I was UK PM, one of the first things I'd change (if I could, which I probably couldn't is the education system.

It needs to reflect reality, at least a bit.

I'm not saying certain topics aren't important, but (and I say this as a lover of both) history and geography are not more important than understanding good finances and nutrition.

Similarly - and the real point of this post - I'd teach all about cognitive biases.

I'd teach them about the Dunning–Kruger effect in which people with zero expertise or understanding of a situation will have so little self-awareness that they will believe they are more competent and on the money than an expert.

I'd explain the availability heuristic would be important so they know that just because a piece of information is readily at hand, that doesn't mean you need to ascribe more value to it.

I'd give examples of sunk cost fallacy where people keep throwing more and more money/time/energy at a thing/situation/belief even though they will never get a return. Including beliefs.

Hindsight bias will be taught because people need to know that we always think things were more obvious after the fact than they were at the time. 

And finally I'd teach bias blind spot because kids need to understand that they will probably go through life thinking they are less biased than other people. The reality is, they're not - unless that is, they know about biases and heuristics and can challenge their own thinking.

If we did teach all that we'd see message boards filled with comments like, 'well that's an interesting point. It clashes a bit with my previous assumptions, but let me go away and do some research with an open mind rather than run around like a headless chicken looking to find information that supports my belief and undermines yours.'

Probably all a bit boring for most people.

Me included if I'm being honest.

It was a crap idea.

 

[Eddie]

6 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Couldn't agree more.

I think there are plenty waiting to almost celebrate if/when the target isn't hit. Our old favourite the Daily Mail have a count down "2 days to go etc" each day. I'm certain they'll be mightily disappointed if somehow the target is achieved.

Isn't the Mail turning on the Tories one of the signs of the Apocalypse?

[RamNut]

 

 

[Norman]

8 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

If I was UK PM, one of the first things I'd change (if I could, which I probably couldn't is the education system.

It needs to reflect reality, at least a bit.

I'm not saying certain topics aren't important, but (and I say this as a lover of both) history and geography are not more important than understanding good finances and nutrition.

Similarly - and the real point of this post - I'd teach all about cognitive biases.

I'd teach them about the Dunning–Kruger effect in which people with zero expertise or understanding of a situation will have so little self-awareness that they will believe they are more competent and on the money than an expert.

I'd explain the availability heuristic would be important so they know that just because a piece of information is readily at hand, that doesn't mean you need to ascribe more value to it.

I'd give examples of sunk cost fallacy where people keep throwing more and more money/time/energy at a thing/situation/belief even though they will never get a return. Including beliefs.

Hindsight bias will be taught because people need to know that we always think things were more obvious after the fact than they were at the time. 

And finally I'd teach bias blind spot because kids need to understand that they will probably go through life thinking they are less biased than other people. The reality is, they're not - unless that is, they know about biases and heuristics and can challenge their own thinking.

If we did teach all that we'd see message boards filled with comments like, 'well that's an interesting point. It clashes a bit with my previous assumptions, but let me go away and do some research with an open mind rather than run around like a headless chicken looking to find information that supports my belief and undermines yours.'

Probably all a bit boring for most people.

Me included if I'm being honest.

It was a crap idea.

 

I was going to have a rant about your lack of self-awareness right up until the last bit. 

Good post. 

[TramRam]

9 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

I'd give examples of sunk cost fallacy where people keep throwing more and more money/time/energy at a thing/situation/belief even though they will never get a return. Including beliefs.

 

 

 

I will, Rolls Royce have thrown multi millions at projects devised by some University Graduates who believe their teachings with their own thoughts would make life easier and make more money for the company without ever working in the Aero industry, Plus poor Management who facilitate their desires.

[maxjam]

13 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Away from Coronavirus and Trump, 2 things that have caught my eye in the last few days:-

1 - Government refuse to release findings from the review of grooming gang characteristics, claiming it is not in the public interest. Surely if they want is to be able to protect our children from such things it must be in the public interest to know any tell tale signs? Absolutely shocking decision.

Saw this a few days ago.  Shocking disregard to those involved and the wider general public.

I wasn't going to reply initially (because of forum rules) but would like to add that I see this morning that Priti Patel is expected to be cleared of the bullying accusations against her.  Sir Philip Putnam, was one of here accusers after she 'ordered' him to explain the status of the grooming gang review.  He has since resigned in the meantime,  hopefully we might see some movement in the future.  Both Priti Patel and Sajid Javid seem pretty keen to finally deliver some transparency.