The Politics Thread 2020

[Highgate]

57 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Very true. The Danes seem to have the attitude that everybody from south of about Hamburg is a Roman Catholic pickpocket.

That was @jono who said that..... not me.  I distance myself from that statement.. ?

[Highgate]

1 hour ago, jono said:

@Highgate .personally I think that balance of trade is absolutely critical for a nation to be able to afford the things we (well most of us) want to see in society

Net Exporting countries don’t all do the right thing, but I suspect if you looked at the world in a broad sense, the countries that have a trade surplus are more likely to have more people living well or seeing improving living standards year on year

there is an issue as to what defines an export when we get to services but as a rule of thumb it stands up. 
 

it is no accident that since the U.K. has been running out of North Sea Oil, no longer has a significant a manufacturing base that imports cheap raw materials and exports higher value manufactured goods it has been in decline. The same applies to most larger “old” European power houses. Germany has hung on but I sincerely believe it is a shift that has been happening at a level above party politics and deck chair moving economics. 

Obviously, I'd agree you'd rather have a trade surplus than a trade deficit, but the health of the economy depends on far more than on just the trading balance or indeed the GDP of a state's economy.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/051515/pros-cons-trade-deficit.asp

For example, if a country has a lot of foreign multi nationals, a large amount of the profits from those exports that create the trade surplus may in fact be funneled abroad (having probably avoided paying a decent level of tax in the host country), and having little real effect on the host economy.

[jono]

1 hour ago, Highgate said:

Obviously, I'd agree you'd rather have a trade surplus than a trade deficit, but the health of the economy depends on far more than on just the trading balance or indeed the GDP of a state's economy.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/051515/pros-cons-trade-deficit.asp

For example, if a country has a lot of foreign multi nationals, a large amount of the profits from those exports that create the trade surplus may in fact be funneled abroad (having probably avoided paying a decent level of tax in the host country), and having little real effect on the host economy.

Aye, you’re right when it comes to multi nationals who sell here but record profits elsewhere via financial jiggery pokery. There are certain majors that I would exempt from tax on profit in exchange for a turnover / sales tax .. because they are shysters and deserve to be brought to order. 

Then again part of the current economic model assumes if you work here you will spend here and thus add to the economy beyond just the job you do. Yet there is a lot of money going back to home countries that damages that model. .. I’m not opening a can worms or having a go or being political / anti immigration on this - just observing. I am/was a remainer and love our melting pot society but it does seem counter intuitive that the ubiquitous Polish plumber could claim U.K. child benefit for kids back in Poland. I get that it could be seen to be logical in a universal community but I am not sure that a ) it’s right and b ) it could be properly audited. 
 

To be honest when stuff doesn’t work in a fair way it is the laws that need modifications.  Those who find the loopholes or take the micky are just excercising the shoddier part of human nature. 

[jono]

2 hours ago, Highgate said:

That was @jono who said that..... not me.  I distance myself from that statement.. ?

That’s stretching it a little ?

[jono]

21 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

The point I'm making as I'm sure you are aware, is that if you come from a generation that paid duck all for a University education you need to stop bleating about kids having a few quid wiped off the huge debts they incur these days. Even in 'normal times' I'd take no issue but these are anything but. It's one thing to be bothered about folk getting something you had to work for, it's another altogether when said thing was available to you free of charge.

Totally agree .. the only thing I would add though is that I don’t think degrees and Uni should necessarily be automatic . Somewhere along the line we have to have something that combines the need for integrity, work, intellect. Absolutely higher education should be free but to get the ticket you need standards that I am not convinced are always where they should be. 

 

[AndyinLiverpool]

On 19/03/2020 at 17:50, Paul71 said:

What an awful thing to say.

This was hot on the heals of bitching about teachers

[A Ram for All Seasons]

6 hours ago, Highgate said:

That was @jono who said that..... not me.  I distance myself from that statement.. ?

My sincere apologies for the misquote

[Comrade 86]

On 20/03/2020 at 18:29, jono said:

Totally agree .. the only thing I would add though is that I don’t think degrees and Uni should necessarily be automatic . Somewhere along the line we have to have something that combines the need for integrity, work, intellect. Absolutely higher education should be free but to get the ticket you need standards that I am not convinced are always where they should be. 

 

Take your point Jono but as long as Unis are charging nearly £30k to teach our kids, where's the incentive for them to be selective? The more the merrier will be the school of thought, excuse the pun! I think a lot of older folk (not directed at you but original post) is that kids have it easy but my lad's worked his socks off to put himself through Uni working shifts in a pub and a restaurant and refusing more than modest support from his mum and I.

Moreover, when he leaves, he'll do so with a vast debt and will be looking at anything from 3 to 5 times first income to get on the property ladder. A few on here need to consider these things when they blather on about teaching young people the value of money and instilling work ethics as some might say that it was their generation that 'had it easy' if any did. Over the years, I squirrelled away enough to sort some investment property instead of piling money into my pension fund which is pretty modest currently, so in that regard, the lad is well set, but I'm mindful that many parents and their nippers are nowhere near as fortunate as me and mine. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Take your point Jono but as long as Unis are charging nearly £30k to teach our kids, where's the incentive for them to be selective? The more the merrier will be the school of thought, excuse the pun! I think a lot of older folk (not directed at you but original post) is that kids have it easy but my lad's worked his socks off to put himself through Uni working shifts in a pub and a restaurant and refusing more than modest support from his mum and I.

Moreover, when he leaves, he'll do so with a vast debt and will be looking at anything from 3 to 5 times first income to get on the property ladder. A few on here need to consider these things when they blather on about teaching young people the value of money and instilling work ethics as some might say that it was their generation that 'had it easy' if any did. Over the years, I squirrelled away enough to sort some investment property instead of piling money into my pension fund which is pretty modest currently, so in that regard, the lad is well set, but I'm mindful that many parents and their nippers are nowhere near as fortunate as me and mine. 

I'd hate to be a kid growing up in this age.

I see continuous increasing pressure through the education system leading to a far narrower range of options for careers and an increased level of kids left behind.

Coupled with a life likely to be spent in debt slavery, deteriorating public services and an increasingly penurious retirement, it's not much to look forward to......

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I'd hate to be a kid growing up in this age.

I see continuous increasing pressure through the education system leading to a far narrower range of options for careers and an increased level of kids left behind.

Coupled with a life likely to be spent in debt slavery, deteriorating public services and an increasingly penurious retirement, it's not much to look forward to......

Are you a parent bud? I think we all are predisposed to think like this but my lad and his lot seem a resilient bunch and they've grown up in a slightly different world to my gen and those before. I like to think they'll find their way even though, if I'm completely honest, I do share your concerns. I do note also that my old man feels the same way about my generation and I know it bothers him a lot. He's battled though all kinds of stuff though which he seems to overlook and even now he's still working to secure my future even though I've sorted that out myself! Love te old bugger for it though and I guess that's me not too far from now. So life goes on...

Back to your point, I think the thing that seems to irk the kids I know most is constantly being labelled as soft, needy and not knowing they're born. They know all right and they're way tougher than folk think. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

15 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Are you a parent bud? I think we all are predisposed to think like this but my lad and his lot seem a resilient bunch and they've grown up in a slightly different world to my gen and those before. I like to think they'll find their way even though, if I'm completely honest, I do share your concerns. I do note also that my old man feels the same way about my generation and I know it bothers him a lot. He's battled though all kinds of stuff though which he seems to overlook and even now he's still working to secure my future even though I've sorted that out myself! Love te old bugger for it though and I guess that's me not too far from now. So life goes on...

Back to your point, I think the thing that seems to irk the kids I know most is constantly being labelled as soft, needy and not knowing they're born. They know all right and they're way tougher than folk think. 

Yep. Junior was 18 last week. 

Got the obligatory car having worked out he could just about afford to run it. Now his weekend job is suspended until further notice, college has been closed for the rest of the academic year and his aptitude lies in a direction that is somewhat precarious and poorly paid.

He seems very ill equipped to be striking out on his own in the foreseeable future. We both worry but as you say maybe that is just the natural state to be in ?

[Comrade 86]

39 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

He seems very ill equipped to be striking out on his own in the foreseeable future. We both worry but as you say maybe that is just the natural state to be in ?

No doubt there are challenges ahead for all of us, not least our kids, but small consolation though it may be, there are tougher lives being lived. All the best to you and yours anyway mate.

[1of4]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Yep. Junior was 18 last week. 

Got the obligatory car having worked out he could just about afford to run it. Now his weekend job is suspended until further notice, college has been closed for the rest of the academic year and his aptitude lies in a direction that is somewhat precarious and poorly paid.

He seems very ill equipped to be striking out on his own in the foreseeable future. We both worry but as you say maybe that is just the natural state to be in ?

 Yes it's only natural to worry about your children. My offspring are all in their thirties but I still worry about them. I still  think of them as children, much to their annoyance.

In fact I probably worry about them even more since they've had kids of their own.

[G STAR RAM]

Might be an unpopular view here (well let's be honest most of mine are) but does anyone agree that she would put an immediate freeze on our foreign aid budget?

Also where are all the high profile celebs who cant wait to wave their cheque books and tell us we all should be donating money when is a crisis in another country? They all seem very quiet at the moment.

[Sith Happens]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Might be an unpopular view here (well let's be honest most of mine are) but does anyone agree that she would put an immediate freeze on our foreign aid budget?

Also where are all the high profile celebs who cant wait to wave their cheque books and tell us we all should be donating money when is a crisis in another country? They all seem very quiet at the moment.

In fairness i think a few celebrities have done stuff.....Saw Rhianna was donating 5 million dollars.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

In fairness i think a few celebrities have done stuff.....Saw Rhianna was donating 5 million dollars.

I'm thinking more of British celebrities who have the potential to help the NHS out.

[TimRam]

Close the tax loop holes (temporarily if needed as the likes of Amazon, Apple etc will start screeching), cancel HS2 (this virus crp is here for a while), cancel all foreign "aid". Must be a few billion in there to help OUR people who need it most. There are going to be a LOT of job losses.

[Sith Happens]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm thinking more of British celebrities who have the potential to help the NHS out.

I know Gary Neville offered his hotels didnt he? Aswell as Abramovich...

I get your point though.

[Sith Happens]

Just now, TimRam said:

Close the tax loop holes (temporarily if needed as the likes of Amazon, Apple etc will start screeching), cancel HS2 (this virus crp is here for a while), cancel all foreign "aid". Must be a few billion in there to help OUR people who need it most. There are going to be a LOT of job losses.

Absolutely...one thing i think could happen after this is the realisation that we can be as productive or not more so by working at home.....while everyone can't the increased numbers that may continue to do so on a more regular basis after may see the need for this eliminated..if there ever was a need.

[Rev]

5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Might be an unpopular view here (well let's be honest most of mine are) but does anyone agree that she would put an immediate freeze on our foreign aid budget?

It must be better spent funding a vaccine/cure for this virus.

Whether that's here or abroad, it would benefit the whole world anyway.