lukedcfc Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, jimbobram said: Bielek has massive weight on his shoulders because if his fee. He will be judged more for his performances because of his fee. Not his fault but thats the way it is. I cant for the life of me understand the signing when we clearly was going to miss attacking options with the loss of Mount and Wilson. How was replacements for them not a priority. Im not saying the same quality because thats impossible, but we didn't even try and strengthen those positions. We did replace them, with Paterson and Dowell. Johnson left and we replaced him with bielik, so far he isn’t looking like a 10m player. He looked unfit against Charlton, he is very predictable with the ball. I also didn’t like the way he casually jogged back after losing the ball, I think he is unfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 So Jono was definitely not worth £6m ,but we had some of our best spells last year with him in the side and we could badly do with him in this light weight team . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, jimbobram said: Bielek has massive weight on his shoulders because if his fee. He will be judged more for his performances because of his fee. Not his fault but thats the way it is. I cant for the life of me understand the signing when we clearly was going to miss attacking options with the loss of Mount and Wilson. How was replacements for them not a priority. Im not saying the same quality because thats impossible, but we didn't even try and strengthen those positions. That's the problem with transfer fees and how they've ballooned over the past few years. 5 years ago, both Bielik and Lawrence would've been £2-3m max. Lower fee, lower expectations. I think the issue is, we're still small fry when it comes to these types of investments, £10m to any Prem side, even the newly promoted teams, is a drop in a bucket. £10m to us is a huge amount to spend on one player 5 minutes ago, cannable said: Subsequently been revealed to be a £12,000,000 combined fee… My memory from that time is that we wanted another midfielder anyway, we were linked with both Butterfield and Dale Stephens. I still think we could have got away with Dawkins in midfield. He was man of the match on two of three occasions when he played there the season previous. Roll with a midfield of George, Hendrick and Dawkins with Baird and Hanson as cover for three months until you get Bryson back. It was such a bad season that. Hamstrung us financially whilst weakened us. You spend that £25,000,000 well and we’re mid-table in the Prem. Never should've sold Dawkins, massively underrated player, just because he was signed as a striker/winger/inside forward fans expected/demanded goals & assists galore. But if anything he was a right mid who would keep the ball all day long and keep the rest of the team ticking over. Cocu would love him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, lukedcfc said: We did replace them, with Paterson and Dowell. Johnson left and we replaced him with bielik, so far he isn’t looking like a 10m player. He looked unfit against Charlton, he is very predictable with the ball. I also didn’t like the way he casually jogged back after losing the ball, I think he is unfit. They werent priority which they should have been. Paterson came in last second of the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, King Kevin said: So Jono was definitely not worth £6m ,but we had some of our best spells last year with him in the side and we could badly do with him in this light weight team . The last time we were top of the league we had Bradley Johnson and Jacob Butterfield in midfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 hours ago, jimbobram said: Good scouts can see potential from lower leagues and see who can make the step up. There is plenty of talent about in the lower leagues. our scouting system has been a complete joke for a good while now. We managed to sign Marriott along with Holmes also Luke Thomas now of Barnsley And apparent interest in Maddison from Peterborough. Oh of course the mighty Jake Buxton.and then there was Jeff Hendrix ,I am sure there would be more those are just a few of the top of my head . That record is pretty good over a period of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, TommyPowel said: We managed to sign Marriott along with Holmes also Luke Thomas now of Barnsley And apparent interest in Maddison from Peterborough. Oh of course the mighty Jake Buxton. That record is pretty good over a period of time its not good at all....Marriott wasn't exactly a major find as everyone knew about him and we paid top dollar for him....could say the same about Waghorn both were signed as strikers IMO and in no way did we look at them and say lets play them out wide! but that is not there fault. Jake Buxton wasn't scouted Clough knew him from Burton , Holmes yes , Luke Thomas I'm not so sure about....Our scouting is pretty pathetic as no one from abroad even comes in on loan!! I remember when we brought relatively unknown players in like Marco Reich and Ted Mcminn and they were players who made an impact.....our scouts are two bob and I'd get rid of the lot tomorrow....the youngsters who come through the academy are not scouted through the same channels because they clearly have an idea of what they're doing......I remember years ago watching Harry Maguire at Sheff Utd and Demari Gray at Brum....both worth a punt and would make money on resale but we never seem to bring anyone in who every other bugger knows all about already....scouts seek and find gems and i know every team are looking for better players but ours seem very poor compared to someone like Brentfords for example ....I watched John Egan at Gillinhgam a lot because my son was at Gills and he was solid and dependable and Brentford took a punt....I'll have a bet our scouts didn't even know who he was.....get rid of the lot and get some new fresh scouts in from top to bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 From what I've seen I'd sign this lad tomorrow, even if it was on loan , bags of ability good as a midfilder or striker can play anywhere along the front 3 or as a CAM and bags of skill and rarely gives the ball away...this is th ekind of player I'd like our scouts to be looking to bring in......saw him play a lot for Peterborough and West Ham reserves/under 18s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Samuelsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 59 minutes ago, cannable said: It many only be an individual instance, but I did always think it was weird how his step-lad went with McClaren to watch Calum Paterson Rich man buys football club, step-son asks for a job, gives him a chance at a low level, we'd all do it. Maybe he's proven himself for what he brings to the club, rather than his family connection, and as part of his development is taken along on some scouting trips to observe and learn. Nothing weird in that scenario, especially in the world of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 here we go.....I'd give this lad a punt....has major potential and contract up at end of season so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Saity said: I watched John Egan at Gillinhgam a lot because my son was at Gills and he was solid and dependable and Brentford took a punt....I'll have a bet our scouts didn't even know who he was.....get rid of the lot and get some new fresh scouts in from top to bottom Egan who replaced Tarkowksi, who we should have gone for instead of Shackell. I don’t know about being a step ahead of Brentford, I’d at least take being on the same track. If we’re gonna be lazy with our recruitment at least sign players from them and other teams who try and play good football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JfR Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I think the biggest issue is that when it comes to signing creative players, and wingers in particular, we sign players that have done well in previous seasons and their productivity regularly seems to drop off when they join us. It's easy to say that, for example, Lawrence probably isn't worth £5m or Jozefzoon not worth £2.75m for how they've played at Derby, but those values made sense at the time when Lawrence won player of the season and scored 9 goals and got 11 assists in 16/17 at Ipswich or when Jozefzoon got 7 goals and 7 assists in 17/18 at Brentford with Leeds challenging us for his signature. As a comparison, I'm sure if, for example, in the summer window we'd managed to get Onel Hernandez and Sergi Canos in for a combined £7.5m most of us on here wouldn't be complaining, and I'm sure most of us would have been pretty chuffed, but if they were to suddenly drop their standards and output after joining us there would have been no way to have known that would happen in advance. To me, that seems the biggest issue, that for whatever reason we can't get players that have performed well elsewhere to maintain those standards when with us. Take a certain current Bristol City winger, scored 10 goals and got 5 assists last season and has 4 goals and 2 assists already in this one, a bargain for £2m. A few years prior he could regularly get over 10 goal contributions a season at Premier League level. We could really do with a player like that right now, but that player didn't play like that when he was with us. We could bring in Jarrod Bowen, Joe Lolley, Said Benrahma, Ollie Watkins, Kamil Grosicki, Pablo Hernandez, whoever, but there's absolutely no guarantee that they would continue to produce as they have done before coming to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 It might just be me but do we always seemed to be linked with the right player and end up signing a poor substitute ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, JfR said: I think the biggest issue is that when it comes to signing creative players, and wingers in particular, we sign players that have done well in previous seasons and their productivity regularly seems to drop off when they join us. It's easy to say that, for example, Lawrence probably isn't worth £5m or Jozefzoon not worth £2.75m for how they've played at Derby, but those values made sense at the time when Lawrence won player of the season and scored 9 goals and got 11 assists in 16/17 at Ipswich or when Jozefzoon got 7 goals and 7 assists in 17/18 at Brentford with Leeds challenging us for his signature. To me, that seems the biggest issue, that for whatever reason we can't get players that have performed well elsewhere to maintain those standards when with us. Take a certain current Bristol City winger, scored 10 goals and got 5 assists last season and has 4 goals and 2 assists already in this one, a bargain for £2m. A few years prior he could regularly get over 10 goal contributions a season at Premier League level. We could really do with a player like that right now, but that player didn't play like that when he was with us. We could bring in Jarrod Bowen, Joe Lolley, Said Benrahma, Ollie Watkins, Kamil Grosicki, Pablo Hernandez, whoever, but there's absolutely no guarantee that they would continue to produce as they have done before coming to us. The problem is that we buy players and they play them in a completely different role to what they are suited for. Zoon is one of the few wingers we've actually bought and played in the right position. I don't care what anyone says, but Lawrence is a 10 - not a winger regardless of where he played for Ipswich. We played Johnson in virtually every position on the pitch during his time here. One of our managers used Will goddamn Hughes as a holding midfielder in several games. We play Waghorn as a winger as well when he would be far better in the middle, but due to our penchant for buying CAMs and strikers we dont really have much choice, because we dont have any wingers. Weimann is playing more of a striker role than a winger at Bristol and shockingly he is doing very well there. The couple of times we played him as a striker he did well as well. It doesn't matter who we bring in if we just play them willy nilly in any position we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, JfR said: I think the biggest issue is that when it comes to signing creative players, and wingers in particular, we sign players that have done well in previous seasons and their productivity regularly seems to drop off when they join us. It's easy to say that, for example, Lawrence probably isn't worth £5m or Jozefzoon not worth £2.75m for how they've played at Derby, but those values made sense at the time when Lawrence won player of the season and scored 9 goals and got 11 assists in 16/17 at Ipswich or when Jozefzoon got 7 goals and 7 assists in 17/18 at Brentford with Leeds challenging us for his signature. As a comparison, I'm sure if, for example, in the summer window we'd managed to get Onel Hernandez and Sergi Canos in for a combined £7.5m most of us on here wouldn't be complaining, and I'm sure most of us would have been pretty chuffed, but if they were to suddenly drop their standards and output after joining us there would have been no way to have known that would happen in advance. To me, that seems the biggest issue, that for whatever reason we can't get players that have performed well elsewhere to maintain those standards when with us. Take a certain current Bristol City winger, scored 10 goals and got 5 assists last season and has 4 goals and 2 assists already in this one, a bargain for £2m. A few years prior he could regularly get over 10 goal contributions a season at Premier League level. We could really do with a player like that right now, but that player didn't play like that when he was with us. We could bring in Jarrod Bowen, Joe Lolley, Said Benrahma, Ollie Watkins, Kamil Grosicki, Pablo Hernandez, whoever, but there's absolutely no guarantee that they would continue to produce as they have done before coming to us. I agree but this is why I'd like us to be signing and looking at potential to be good rather than already been discovered as in Lawrence....for example when Brentford signed Jota I'd never heard of him and same when leicester got Vardy and Maddison looked a class above any midfielder I'd seen at our place and he was snapped up from Coventry by Norwich who then loaned him back again once again not for a massive fee.....I'd like us to have the ability to see players before they become 2-3m....there are good young players out there that need a break / chance and have maybe been around at top clubs but haven't made it in the eyes of the club....its having that all important ability to see that the player has something that can be worked on and who has the right attitude etc....I don't even call Lawrence for example a player that was scouted as he was in the 3-5m bracket already...Leicester are the side that scouted him and got the good deal....as they saw something in him when he was at Man Utd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Saity said: From what I've seen I'd sign this lad tomorrow, even if it was on loan , bags of ability good as a midfilder or striker can play anywhere along the front 3 or as a CAM and bags of skill and rarely gives the ball away...this is th ekind of player I'd like our scouts to be looking to bring in......saw him play a lot for Peterborough and West Ham reserves/under 18s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Samuelsen At 22 wouldnt he fall into the remit of the Academy and would be competing against Hectar-Ingram? who incidentally came from West Ham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 hours ago, jimbobram said: Good scouts can see potential from lower leagues and see who can make the step up. There is plenty of talent about in the lower leagues. our scouting system has been a complete joke for a good while now. I'm racking my brains here, trying to think of players that have gone from lower league teams in recent years to make a big impact at Premier League or Championship level. I'll be honest I cant really think of many. Feel free to correct me though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 You'd think our knowledge of players based in the Netherlands would be decent now. It'll be interesting to see if we bring in anyone from the Dutch leagues in the next window or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I'm racking my brains here, trying to think of players that have gone from lower league teams in recent years to make a big impact at Premier League or Championship level. I'll be honest I cant really think of many. Feel free to correct me though! I can’t tell if you’re trying to bait the Jamie Vardy answer here or not… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, cannable said: I can’t tell if you’re trying to bait the Jamie Vardy answer here or not… Obviously there are a few, Vardy, Maddison and Watkins spring to mind, beyond that though I cant think of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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