Relax, we're in a good place!

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 hour ago, Van Cone De Head said:

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/289806/stoke-leeds-united-match-thread?page=24

Could be worse.

I did laugh at the post claiming they were the biggest club in the division.

[RamNut]

We're in a better place.

knight was the difference today between the earlier team selections which featured two holding players, and the better balance we witnessed - more able to progress through the midfield.

i like the fact that cocu was clinical in his team selection. There must have been a huge temptation to persist with three at the back, but instead he selected knight and went back to 433. Bielik went into his best position and clarke was out despite playing ok. Like it. 

Similarly malone and jozefzoon were ditched after mediocre performances and errors. No messing.

Obviously lowe and buchanan limit our threat from full back, but all the sprogs will benefit massively from the game time.

Nevertheless the second half performance is a slight concern. despite creating a couple of chances, we lacked the necessary quality to go on and win and were pinned back. 

Better, but not yet where we would like to be.

[Ruud Aralliss]

2 hours ago, WHAT DO I GET said:

Once again a killer assessment 

It’s bang on really

[Ruud Aralliss]

2 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

Have to say, I always forget just how good Marriott's all round game is. He's so skilful, tenacious and strong on the ball. 

I always associate him with banging in the goals but he's just a bloody good player.

Yeah he dropped back today and fought to win balls he had no right to win then played it off and found his man. Just wish we could give him at least half chances as IMO he’s the best natural goalscorer in the league 

[Ruud Aralliss]

13 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I did laugh at the post claiming they were the biggest club in the division.

And apparently “ have the best squad “

[RoyMac5]

55 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Match thread mate. Nothing awful just a bit silly really.

And Cocu?

Quote

"One moment in a game can change the result for you and I'm really disappointed about this because I told the lads at half-time to be careful in the box: no holding, no crazy tackles.

"As a defender you have to stay on your feet. I haven't seen it but I don't care- if he stays on his feet, what can the referee do? Nothing. It's tough on us but that's why we don't have the three points.

"It's very disappointing. We got an early lead, started well and if he scores the second penalty I think victory is ours and even in the second half we created three really good opportunities to score but we couldn't get the second goal."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49378595

 

[NottsRam77]

17 minutes ago, RamNut said:

We're in a better place.

knight was the difference today between the earlier team selections which featured two holding players, and the better balance we witnessed - more able to progress through the midfield.

i like the fact that cocu was clinical in his team selection. There must have been a huge temptation to persist with three at the back, but instead he selected knight and went back to 433. Bielik went into his best position and clarke was out despite playing ok. Like it. 

Similarly malone and jozefzoon were ditched after mediocre performances and errors. No messing.

Obviously lowe and buchanan limit our threat from full back, but all the sprogs will benefit massively from the game time.

Nevertheless the second half performance is a slight concern. despite creating a couple of chances, we lacked the necessary quality to go on and win and were pinned back. 

Better, but not yet where we would like to be.

I thought Bowyer said his best position was DmC where he became a revelation for them, I’m sure he player himself has alluded to that 

I think with time (ie next season) when hudds moves on he’ll be a shoeing for that position 

dont get me wrong thought he was class today 

[SillyBilly]

57 minutes ago, RamNut said:

We're in a better place.

knight was the difference today between the earlier team selections which featured two holding players, and the better balance we witnessed - more able to progress through the midfield.

i like the fact that cocu was clinical in his team selection. There must have been a huge temptation to persist with three at the back, but instead he selected knight and went back to 433. Bielik went into his best position and clarke was out despite playing ok. Like it. 

Similarly malone and jozefzoon were ditched after mediocre performances and errors. No messing.

Obviously lowe and buchanan limit our threat from full back, but all the sprogs will benefit massively from the game time.

Nevertheless the second half performance is a slight concern. despite creating a couple of chances, we lacked the necessary quality to go on and win and were pinned back. 

Better, but not yet where we would like to be.

Agreed, I think Cocu is showing mettle and I like how he comes across post-match even in defeat. He is obviously very irritated his gameplan hasn't been excecuted; you get the impression the right things are being worked on and done and we have to wait for things to come together. It will click, he is still figuring things out. I'm relaxed for the first time in a while about the dreaded "transition season" phrase because I like the set-up and philosophy. When you're in transition with Gary Rowett at the helm, that is a different kettle of fish mind!

 

[LB_DCFC]

As per the excellent  @experimental361 on twitter, Derby, by virtue of their performances so far should 'expect' to have 10 points , and therefore be 6th in the league, which makes sense, as today and Swansea were games we really should have won based on chances (and missed Penalties!). There is plenty reason to be encouraged by the start of our season, even if the results don't show what we have 'deserved'. We're in a positive place with positive signs developing, and although we are lacking in some areas, I personally believe that Cocu has the nous and knowledge to circumvent those problems and still be able to achieve at a reasonably high level until january, when he can continue to shape his squad in his image. Basically reinforcing the OP's points that we are in a good place.

I understand these type of stats aren't for everyone, but, for example, using a similar method, last season the numbers show that the top 6 should have been, based on performances, Norwich, Sheff U, Leeds, West brom, Aston Villa and Swansea, demonstrating how accurate they usually are (swansea are a slight outlier but they did have visible potential). Though, I am a massive numbers nerd, so I love this type of stuff!

The process of compiling these numbers are seen here:

 https://experimental361.com/2019/08/24/expected-goals-league-tables-23-25-aug-2019/

[Ruud Aralliss]

53 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

And Cocu?

 

Sounds like he says exactly what he thinks, makes you wonder how harsh he is in the dressing room. But if that’s his instructions he has a point though. However, we all ( Cocu included ) needs to remember 1. His age 2. His lack of first team experience  and more importantly 3. He’s human!

He probably thought that sliding forward, nowhere near the players legs didn’t constitute as a ‘ rash challenge ‘ it was a good dive.

I do ( agree) think these things should remain in the dressing room also, as I took from your post, not helpful on tv. 

 

[dcfcfan1]

Another thing is, I think fans expectations may go up based on how forest do, i.e if forest come 18th and we come 8th, its a decent season if transition wheras if Forest go up somehow but we show plenty of promise coming in top half, fans will be unhappy

(My everton friend was saying to me only reason why big sam got sacked was because of liverpools achievements rather than him doing a poor job)

[rammieib]

Dont really know what Clarke had done wrong to be dropped. Dont think it made any bearing on today's outcome but a tad harsh.

I want to see Bielik in the DM position. I am sure thtas what we bought him for.

Ultimately, won today we have Bogle to come in (means a step up), we have Lows to go to LB (which his performances have learnt him), we have Holmes to come in (Presently for Dowell!) and a Marriott who can only get fitter.

So whilst results and maybe performances to a lesser extent have been disappointing there are positives still to come.

[Millenniumram]

59 minutes ago, LB_DCFC said:

As per the excellent  @experimental361 on twitter, Derby, by virtue of their performances so far should 'expect' to have 10 points , and therefore be 6th in the league, which makes sense, as today and Swansea were games we really should have won based on chances (and missed Penalties!). There is plenty reason to be encouraged by the start of our season, even if the results don't show what we have 'deserved'. We're in a positive place with positive signs developing, and although we are lacking in some areas, I personally believe that Cocu has the nous and knowledge to circumvent those problems and still be able to achieve at a reasonably high level until january, when he can continue to shape his squad in his image. Basically reinforcing the OP's points that we are in a good place.

I understand these type of stats aren't for everyone, but, for example, using a similar method, last season the numbers show that the top 6 should have been, based on performances, Norwich, Sheff U, Leeds, West brom, Aston Villa and Swansea, demonstrating how accurate they usually are (swansea are a slight outlier but they did have visible potential). Though, I am a massive numbers nerd, so I love this type of stuff!

The process of compiling these numbers are seen here:

 https://experimental361.com/2019/08/24/expected-goals-league-tables-23-25-aug-2019/

See now this is quite interesting, much as people take the piss. Maybe it’s because it has a weird name, but people seem to discount this as meaningless. I think it’s anything but, it gives a good insight into whether teams are almost “lucky” to be where they are, or vice versa. Now you can’t take it as absolute, as we know the real table is what matters, and defining “luck” is difficult, a team could have a Low XG because they’re set up to be clinical, that doesn’t make them lucky. Nor does it mean that A team who appears to have conceded fewer than they should will fall away- they may just have a strong defence. Stats should never be used to tell a whole story, but they can certainly be very useful to analyse how things may go, and probably more often than not they turn out correct.

This stat I think told us the last two seasons when we were 2nd with Rowett and 4th with Lampard I think that we had a lower XG than actual goals- indictating a possible fall away. Which is exactly what happened, in both cases. So think this stat shows we’re doing things right and there’s hope. But we can’t just put it down to bad luck, we have to work out why we’re not getting the points we arguably have “deserved”, and fix the problems.

[Nuwtfly]

Top stuff on the OP, @86 Schmokes & a Pancake ?

[therealhantsram]

9 hours ago, rammieib said:

Dont really know what Clarke had done wrong to be dropped. Dont think it made any bearing on today's outcome but a tad harsh.

He was at fault for goals against Swansea and Stoke. I was surprised the boo boys didn't pick up on it, but I think they had their sights set on Lowe and Malone in those games instead. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

6 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

He was at fault for goals against Swansea and Stoke. I was surprised the boo boys didn't pick up on it, but I think they had their sights set on Lowe and Malone in those games instead. 

The ones in the 0-0? ?

[JG400]

13 hours ago, Van Cone De Head said:

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/289806/stoke-leeds-united-match-thread?page=24

Could be worse.

How come they can swear , and they have bigger profile pictures than us and one stoke fan has an ME163   for their profile picture nearly fell off my seat , didn't think anyone else but me was interested in that sort of stuff

 

[angieram]

1 hour ago, therealhantsram said:

He was at fault for goals against Swansea and Stoke. I was surprised the boo boys didn't pick up on it, but I think they had their sights set on Lowe and Malone in those games instead. 

I think that if Stoke away had been Clarke's first performance instead of Huddersfield, fans would be saying he was a liability and why had we signed him! 

He was so assured at Huddersfield that the opinion was created that he's a great player. Things like that stick.

I think he's good but lacks pace and his positioning needs working on at times. He's a defender first and foremost and I think he'll come good over the course of the season.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

15 hours ago, dcfcfan1 said:

Easy to see what we want to do under Cocu, with youth and possession based football playing out the back. We look comfortable UNTIL the final third, were we are shocking

 

Hard to know how we will achieve it with this current crop of players, awful wingers (best hope to play holmes LW, waghorn RW) and a work-man like midfield but with no goals or creativity (Id be amazed if one of our CMs even got 5 goals)

Unfortunately that is the price of putting all your eggs in the Rooney basket.

We clearly went all out to get Rooney and that clearly took our focus away from getting what we so desperately needed, quality wingers.

[angieram]

10 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

See now this is quite interesting, much as people take the piss. Maybe it’s because it has a weird name, but people seem to discount this as meaningless. I think it’s anything but, it gives a good insight into whether teams are almost “lucky” to be where they are, or vice versa. Now you can’t take it as absolute, as we know the real table is what matters, and defining “luck” is difficult, a team could have a Low XG because they’re set up to be clinical, that doesn’t make them lucky. Nor does it mean that A team who appears to have conceded fewer than they should will fall away- they may just have a strong defence. Stats should never be used to tell a whole story, but they can certainly be very useful to analyse how things may go, and probably more often than not they turn out correct.

This stat I think told us the last two seasons when we were 2nd with Rowett and 4th with Lampard I think that we had a lower XG than actual goals- indictating a possible fall away. Which is exactly what happened, in both cases. So think this stat shows we’re doing things right and there’s hope. But we can’t just put it down to bad luck, we have to work out why we’re not getting the points we arguably have “deserved”, and fix the problems.

It is partly down to bad luck (chance) but also to confidence and maybe a little bit of expectation. It seems ever to have been the way with Derby! 

That's why last season was such a refreshing change when we were often getting better results than expected. I can only put that down to the Lampard effect and the players wanting to do well for him.