v Forest (A) Carabao Cup Match Thread

[GrimsbyRam]

11 hours ago, Gil said:

With a rookie manager who had to drastically change the style from Rowett.

If Cocu really is a massive upgrade like everyone claimed then I don't think 6th is all that unrealistic. Look at what Bielsa has done at Leeds with a mediocre squad.

We were two penalties missed penalties away from being 4th. The squad is much better than you're given them credit for.

I really hope so but cannot see it with out midfield/wingers. Bar Bielek, Bogle, Marriott and Holmes (possibly Waghorn) don’t think many others are ‘top six’ players. 

[Marriot Ram99]

5 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

I really hope so but cannot see it with out midfield/wingers. Bar Bielek, Bogle, Marriott and Holmes (possibly Waghorn) don’t think many others are ‘top six’ players. 

Keogh? Since he has been a key part of top 6 teams many times before, Rooney? Cardiff on paper looked abit poo when they finished 2nd but as a team were hard to beat as a unit, we have to hope that once Bogle and Holmes start we start to look a proper team that can break down defences and not give away many sloppy goals like we have so far. Lawrence has the potential to be a very good player at this level, but so far he is good one game and poo for the next 5, if he could just improve his decision making and attitude and we got him on the ball in better positions, he might start to look like he did vs Huddersfield more regularly. 

[GrimsbyRam]

8 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

Keogh? Since he has been a key part of top 6 teams many times before, Rooney? Cardiff on paper looked abit poo when they finished 2nd but as a team were hard to beat as a unit, we have to hope that once Bogle and Holmes start we start to look a proper team that can break down defences and not give away many sloppy goals like we have so far. Lawrence has the potential to be a very good player at this level, but so far he is good one game and poo for the next 5, if he could just improve his decision making and attitude and we got him on the ball in better positions, he might start to look like he did vs Huddersfield more regularly. 

Rooney is not here bud would rather have a young mount/Wilson type player for his wages for a season. Lawrence had potential when we signed him. He is not improving in terms of his consistency. A one in eight player. He was bloody fantastic against Huddersfield (I was as impressed with him ‘without the ball’). Keogh is a Ok enough for this league but he won’t be getting any better. 

[May Contain Nuts]

29 minutes ago, Andicis said:

. Forest's manager risked injuries to his best players. Know why? Because he knows the importance of the fixture to fans. 

Because he knows that if they're out of the cups and not in the top 6 by the end of November he'll get the sack, and maybe even if they are.

[Ambitious]

2 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

Rooney is not here bud would rather have a young mount/Wilson type player for his wages for a season. Lawrence had potential when we signed him. He is not improving in terms of his consistency. A one in eight player. He was bloody fantastic against Huddersfield (I was as impressed with him ‘without the ball’). Keogh is a Ok enough for this league but he won’t be getting any better. 

Keogh is comfortably our best player, no doubt about that. No one else puts in a minimum 7/10 every week, which is possibly our bigger problem. Bogle and Keogh are the two instrumental players in this side, without one or the other we’re considerably weaker. 

[Mick Brolly]

59 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

So, what team should Cocu have played?

Hamer- Yes, no one can have issue with that.

Davies and Clarke - Both need the minutes and no point risking Keogh and Bielik who is carrying a knock.

Who else could play fullback, we can't risk Lowe or Malone as that is all we have. 

Midfield - Huddlestone was never going to play, big ask on Knight to play again. Bielik, not worth the risk. Evans has played well when played so yes and Shinnie needs game time. Could have played Holmes there but who else can play full back? Maybe Dowell could have played but again he has played a lot recently.

Wingers? Lawrence we can't risk, Josefzoon could have played. Paterson needs the game time as does Bennett.

Strikers - Waghorn puts in a lot of work for us, need him. Marriott is being rightly treated with caution. If Martin was fit, then I believe he needed the game time.

You look at it like that, paper thin.

If Lawrence got injured we are in trouble, same for Waghorn. We have to use the youth players this season, how will Cocu know who is ready if they don't get a competitive match? 

most predicated an 8th to 12th place finish this season so what are we risking or jeopardizing exactly. 

[BondJovi]

1 minute ago, Smyth_18 said:

Not overly bothered myself but what is this about risk?

We can't risk Lawrence? He could also get injured 2 minutes into the game on Saturday or in training. Footballers should be just playing football and by Lawrence's recent performances, he needs a bit of practice.

Risking Keogh? The man is a machine, he cannot get injured.

Of course there is risk whatever happens. The manager will be dammed whatever they do by some. People still go on about Thorne and Ipswich...

My personal preference would always be to play the strongest team but I equally can see exactly why we used the League cup in this way.

Imagine the outcry on here if we went full strength and Keogh broke his leg. Or Waghorn tore a hamstring. He simply can't win. This is only a discussion really because it was Forest. Take some pride in Cocu trusting our young players.

[atherstoneram]

15 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

What a load of rubbish. Do you think Mel has got Rooney as a long term plan.?

if we finish in the bottom half then Mel will sack Cocu, no question at all. 

Who's going to sign Rooney on a 4 year deal,nobody, totally different matter regarding the manager.. People on here are hoping /wanting Mel will/to sack him if we finish in the bottom half which i doubt very much. Mel will be fully aware of the squad situation and finances. Rooney is a one-off as sponsorship will pay his wages.Mel is relying on the youngsters coming good and Cocu is the best man for that.

[IlsonDerby]

I’m not going to quote the post because I’ve lost it and can’t be bothered to find it but ‘trying to brush off a 3-0 loss to forest won’t be easy’ 

 

grow up a bit ?? It’s a game of football with little to no bearing on the rest of the season... yeah it’s annoying but it’s not like losing ya job or your wife leaving you! 

my Mrs and her whole family are red dogs, I’ve gotta go round there tomorrow and endure a right ribbing... and then it’ll be done. Brentford match far more important. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DavesaRam]

The signs weren't good even before the match started. I parked in West Bridgford and walked in, only to be held at the gates to the car park which the police had shut. It was for our safety (he said to me and another Rams fan amongst about 150 Forest fans), and will only be for a minute or two while the Derby fans arrive from the station and walk through. "We need to keep the Derby and Forest fans separate" he said, as the Derby fans walked through with a whole load of Forest fans at the same time. ?. I really wanted a drink before going up to the seats, but because of the hold up, got into the ground with less than 15 minutes to kick-off, and queues for the bar were huge. So we set off to the stands, intending to come down at half-time, only to see a big sign saying "No alcohol served after kick-off". So I was off to flyer!

I was actually quite happy with how we played for the first 20 minutes or so, keeping Forest to long-range, off-target efforts, and not being too far behind the Reds, until the first goal. At which point, our game was over. Suddenly the effective, purposeful playing out from the back stopped, and we started doing the side-to-side stuff of the recent past, so forwards play was reduced to a shuffle at times. No-one was prepared to take a chance or make a decision which would open the Red's defence, and our attacking threat was gone, and we simply tailed off from there onwards. We had a brief flurry after Marriott and Mitchell-Taylor came on, but that didn't last long, at at the end Forest were simply toying with us.

A Facebook post that Forest were intending to "disturb" Derby County gave some warning bells - I immediately saw it as them kicking us to kingdom come, and that we would get a ref who would let them do it while booking Derby players for first offences. And yes, the Trees were very aggressive and very physical, with constant upending of Derby players either breaking clear with the ball, or running through to receive the ball, with very little being given, and even less in terms of trying to put a stop to it. Is this part of the new EFL rules, because it has been allowed to happen for the last 4 games? Then Buchanan got booked for a strong challenge in which he got the ball. Even if it was a foul, it was his first offence. Sibley got cleaned up very early on, with nothing given, but was penalised for getting the ball moments later, and then Evans was penalised for a foul which was almost identical to when Sibley got taken out. 

In the end though, it made little difference, because Forest wanted the win, we didn't. It demonstrated the difference in the two squads - Forest have more players than Boris Johnson has told lies, and they have had a pre-season, whereas we haven't. Thanks Frank. Of the newbies, I think Sibley did OK, seeing as he was making his debut in a very exposed place, and Mitchell-Taylor looked bright when he came on.

However, Cocu has messed up big time, not because he wants to blood the youngsters - we all understand that. It was because he blooded them all at once, with only players who can't make the first team alongside. It was too many all at once, hanging them out to dry, in an absolute cauldron of a match. They might learn from it, but there is also a very strong likelihood that it could have damaged their confidence instead. As many have suggested, he should have introduced them into a side more like the first-choice starting 11. I notice that it was only after we had got the sell-out of the tickets that we got the sell-out of the fans.

[GenBr]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

Yeah, but Forest actually kept some of their starting players like Lolley on, and put out a competitive team. If our squad isn't big enough, tough, but we should still put out a squad capable of keeping up and not getting hammered 3-0. It doesn't look bad at hindsight, it looked bad as soon as I read it from the Twitter page, considered going home at that point, it was evident we weren't able to win, or register a shot on target for that matter. 

I don't know why you're trying to play this off as Cocu experimenting and genuinely trying to win, when it's patently obvious that isn't true. If Cocu had wanted to win, he would have played first choice players and not a full reserve/youth blend. Forest's manager risked injuries to his best players. Know why? Because he knows the importance of the fixture to fans. 

The only players who started against both Fulham and against us for Forest were Samba who is their goalkeeper, Worrall at Centre back and Joe Lolley. There squad is better than ours at the moment - we don't have the players to make that many changes and still be competitive. Evans and Clarke have both played multiple times for the first team this season for us as well, so that makes us even on outfield players.

I wouldn't bother with the  cups at all if it meant us getting promoted.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, GenBr said:

The only players who started against both Fulham and against us for Forest were Samba who is their goalkeeper, Worrall at Centre back and Joe Lolley. There squad is better than ours at the moment - we don't have the players to make that many changes and still be competitive. Evans and Clarke have both played multiple times for the first team this season for us as well, so that makes us even on outfield players.

I wouldn't bother with the  cups at all if it meant us getting promoted.

Except Evans and Clarke had both been dropped. You named players that had been starting in Forest's first 11 the game before. 

We're not getting promoted this year. But we should at least try play for some pride against rivals.

[MuespachRam]

12 hours ago, Ruda Harliss said:

A sell out , were did you see it from?

I’m talking about how many were left at the end to applaud the kids...?

[GenBr]

38 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Except Evans and Clarke had both been dropped. You named players that had been starting in Forest's first 11 the game before. 

We're not getting promoted this year. But we should at least try play for some pride against rivals.

You can play semantics all you like, but if it makes you feel better the players mentioned didn't just play the last game for Forest. They have played the same team in every league match with 1 occasional change to the starting lineup. They did not play their first team in the cup against us.

We don't even know what our best 11 in the league is yet. Evans started the first three games of the season and Clarke has started the same number of league games as Joe Lolley - only having been dropped for the last match. 

Pride is meaningless, but if it upsets you so much that we lost to Forest nothing I say is going to change your mind.

[admira]

According to The Mirror, we did pretty well last night!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/Derby-captain-richard-keogh-left-19021456

[Mick Brolly]

good old daily mirror. 

"Forest were comfortably beaten on the night, after Cocu made 10 changes to the side that drew 1-1 with West Brom at the weekend."

[Comrade 86]

10 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said:

good old daily mirror. 

"Forest were comfortably beaten on the night, after Cocu made 10 changes to the side that drew 1-1 with West Brom at the weekend."

Just goes to show how rubbish Spammage and Dawes' commentary was then. They had us losing 3-0 the twits!

 

[Premier ram]

14 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I feel really sorry for Cocu.

I don't think the Derby job is the hardest in the division. But the circumstances he walked into were certainly more challenging than people appreciated and the lack of patience from the fans only adds to the challenge.

He arrived eight weeks ago at a club reeling from a play-off final defeat and at a club who had just spent the whole summer being publicly toyed with by Lampard and Chelsea. 

He arrived eight weeks ago to a depleted squad - four key players (Mount, Johnson, Wilson and Tomori) from last season were gone and two more (Holmes and Marriott) carried major question marks over their long term fitness.

He arrived eight weeks ago to a club whose fans had already anointed him King Phillip and were positive that his arrival would lead to a glorious promotion playing football in the classic Dutch style along the way.

He arrived eight weeks ago to a club who had not really fully prepared for or anticipated his arrival and as such were scrambling around for signings with no obvious strategy in the final week of the transfer window.

Cocu took a big risk taking this job and putting his reputation on the line. For his first job in English football, he certainly could have picked an easier job. I don't envy him at all when you sit down and take a moment to consider everything.

How easy is it coming into a club with a recent history of impatient fans and an impatient owner? How easy is it coming into a club who expect to be competing for promotion year on year? How easy is it coming into a club where the gloom needed to be lifted?

How easy is it coming into a club where the squad needed to be rebuilt? How easy is it coming into a club who thought signing Rooney and being on the front page of the Sun was more important than genuinely addressing five or six gaps in the squad?

That's the reality facing Cocu. Give the man a break.

wow sense at last , great post mate

[Premier ram]

9 hours ago, kingsy1884 said:

Cant believe the meltdown on here. 

The carabao cup is pretty tin pot and a massive demand mid week.

Cocu was completely right to play the 2nd XI especially with a game so soon after. Glad we are out the cup even to forest I couldnt care less. Better to have no distractions from the league. 

The cup runs held us back last season with injuries last season so glad to be out of it.

Just need some wins in the league now to back this up.

agree mate , if Cocu had put the first team out last night and beaten Forest and then lost on Saturday he would of still been wrong

[KCG]

Tens years of being in transition and it seems another 10 to come.