sunnyhill60 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jourdan said: I feel really sorry for Cocu. I don't think the Derby job is the hardest in the division. But the circumstances he walked into were certainly more challenging than people appreciated and the lack of patience from the fans only adds to the challenge. He arrived eight weeks ago at a club reeling from a play-off final defeat and at a club who had just spent the whole summer being publicly toyed with by Lampard and Chelsea. He arrived eight weeks ago to a depleted squad - four key players (Mount, Johnson, Wilson and Tomori) from last season were gone and two more (Holmes and Marriott) carried major question marks over their long term fitness. He arrived eight weeks ago to a club whose fans had already anointed him King Phillip and were positive that his arrival would lead to a glorious promotion playing football in the classic Dutch style along the way. He arrived eight weeks ago to a club who had not really fully prepared for or anticipated his arrival and as such were scrambling around for signings with no obvious strategy in the final week of the transfer window. Cocu took a big risk taking this job and putting his reputation on the line. For his first job in English football, he certainly could have picked an easier job. I don't envy him at all when you sit down and take a moment to consider everything. How easy is it coming into a club with a recent history of impatient fans and an impatient owner? How easy is it coming into a club who expect to be competing for promotion year on year? How easy is it coming into a club where the gloom needed to be lifted? How easy is it coming into a club where the squad needed to be rebuilt? How easy is it coming into a club who thought signing Rooney and being on the front page of the Sun was more important than genuinely addressing five or six gaps in the squad? That's the reality facing Cocu. Give the man a break. If he chooses Bennett to lead the line he does not deserve a break. ( I don't care if he took a risk taking the job, he is being amply rewarded) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, sunnyhill60 said: If he chooses Bennett to lead the line he does not deserve a break. ( I don't care if he took a risk taking the job, he is being amply rewarded) In a 2nd round League Cup game - the result of which has no bearing on our season... The kind of game in which if Marriott or Waghorn had started and got injured, people would be saying there was no need to risk key players. If you feel this strongly about Cocu's selection last night, I dread to think how you felt at 2pm on the day of the play off final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojimbo Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 --ignore-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Jourdan said: I feel really sorry for Cocu. I don't think the Derby job is the hardest in the division. But the circumstances he walked into were certainly more challenging than people appreciated and the lack of patience from the fans only adds to the challenge. He arrived eight weeks ago at a club reeling from a play-off final defeat and at a club who had just spent the whole summer being publicly toyed with by Lampard and Chelsea. He arrived eight weeks ago to a depleted squad - four key players (Mount, Johnson, Wilson and Tomori) from last season were gone and two more (Holmes and Marriott) carried major question marks over their long term fitness. He arrived eight weeks ago to a club whose fans had already anointed him King Phillip and were positive that his arrival would lead to a glorious promotion playing football in the classic Dutch style along the way. He arrived eight weeks ago to a club who had not really fully prepared for or anticipated his arrival and as such were scrambling around for signings with no obvious strategy in the final week of the transfer window. Cocu took a big risk taking this job and putting his reputation on the line. For his first job in English football, he certainly could have picked an easier job. I don't envy him at all when you sit down and take a moment to consider everything. How easy is it coming into a club with a recent history of impatient fans and an impatient owner? How easy is it coming into a club who expect to be competing for promotion year on year? How easy is it coming into a club where the gloom needed to be lifted? How easy is it coming into a club where the squad needed to be rebuilt? How easy is it coming into a club who thought signing Rooney and being on the front page of the Sun was more important than genuinely addressing five or six gaps in the squad? That's the reality facing Cocu. Give the man a break. Don’t talk sense on here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loweman2 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, sunnyhill60 said: If he chooses Bennett to lead the line he does not deserve a break. ( I don't care if he took a risk taking the job, he is being amply rewarded) Frank Lampard chose the same player to lead the line in undoubtedly our biggest game in five years at Wembley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Ram Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I'm disappointed that we lost but Cocu has either decided, or been told, to unearth some talent from our 23s. Given the lack of pre-season that he had, he's obviously decided that cups give him the opportunity to pitch the youngsters in to see who has got what's needed. Whilst it isn't the single measure of success, since August started Cocu has been successful in raising the profile of several of our 23s and has already stuck a few noughts on their overall value. Looking at this another way, Cocu has also got a better idea whether any of the 23s could do a better job that others in the club - and got a better idea of what will be needed in the January transfer period. The Florest game was a part of the plan, I guess it doesn't make the loss much earlier to take, but does at least give something positive from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Jourdan said: If you feel this strongly about Cocu's selection last night, I dread to think how you felt at 2pm on the day of the play off final. Not great! ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admira Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Marriott Ram99 said: I had a feeling it was around 4, 7 seemed far too many. Before that, we hadn’t lost in 6. Perhaps that’s what they were thinking of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I am not sure what to say about last night. The more experienced players weren’t that good. The youngsters were a bit out of depth at times and played a lot of balls straight to Forests feet. It felt like we put it on a plate for them. I felt a bit like the team selection half hearted and expected us to lose. If anything good came from last night I might have lost 2lb in sweat while stood at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleEatonRam Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 7 hours ago, bigbadbob said: Yea weird one isn't it. Got me scratching my head. So you don't have any clue either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Mummy said: So could you please tell me/us what you think he has learned. Genuine question ? This is only my opinion of course He's seen young players with potential in a proper match in a proper atmosphere and will have learnt who's ready to step up and who isn't.I think there was enough experience with Davies,Evans,Holmes,Paterson to have helped the youngsters but thought all were poor apart from Paterson maybe......How can you learn ?? by playing in under23 games ?? He will also see what reactions he gets from players eg Sibley ( who I rate ) Sibley will not have played in a bigger game and will hopefully work on the parts of his game that need attention I was one that thought that Sibley would break into the first team but last night showed he isn't quite ready yet and same can be said for a few others. I've said this already but Wenger played kids all the time in the league cup and some grew and some didn't and our players are no different. Some will go on from this some won't.......We didn't really lay a glove on Forest to be honest and that was dissapointing but I think Cocu has learnt a bit more about his squad/players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 8 hours ago, MuespachRam said: What a load of rubbish. Do you think Mel has got Rooney as a long term plan.? if we finish in the bottom half then Mel will sack Cocu, no question at all. Rooney is for long term commercial gain and his contract is for 18 months with an option to extend another year. If it was for 6 months I'd agree with you. Cocu won't get sacked unless we're stuck in the relegation zone. 4 year contracts for a coach and his large team are extremely expensive to cancel, something we can't afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 complete utter garbage,If you cant post anything remotely sensible please dont bother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWC1983 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I thought Craig Ramage made a couple of fair points last night. The team and manager are still learning how to play together, so last night could of been a continuation of that learning if the core had stayed the same. The International break is only 1 week away. Stick out a strong team and ask them to give the effort for the Forest and Brentford games in the knowledge theres a break coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Andicis said: What I used to really respect Lampard for, is he would always put out a strong team for the cup, he would go for it, Cocu's approach tonight is something that is wrong with football. I don't care how unlikely it is that we win the cup (it's even more unlikely we'll win the league), I strongly believe you should play every football game with the intention of winning. Devaluing of cups is pathetic. Did that respect continue when, following midweek cup games, we lost to Millwall, Bolton and Rotherham? I seem to remember a lot of fans being very irate with them results! 7 hours ago, BondJovi said: We only went strong in the cup under Lampard when we got glamour ties. That's just simply not true. 6 hours ago, Ruda Harliss said: 3300 of us were there watching it ? I'm not sure what this has got to do with team selection. Are you suggesting that if we only sold 500 tickets it would be ok for him to put a weakened team out? No evidence for this but I'd be willing to bet that of the 3300 that went, Forest will be their only away game of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsy1884 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Cant believe the meltdown on here. The carabao cup is pretty tin pot and a massive demand mid week. Cocu was completely right to play the 2nd XI especially with a game so soon after. Glad we are out the cup even to forest I couldnt care less. Better to have no distractions from the league. The cup runs held us back last season with injuries last season so glad to be out of it. Just need some wins in the league now to back this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Don't think either manager took the game seriously, just showed the squad depths in full and how Forest clearly have more strength in numbers. We're having to take a gamble on our young players to see who will rise and who will sink, you just don't know until we try and play them. I'd have changed half the team as we only have 1 more league game before a 2 week break, so making 10 changes did not make sense to me. Cocu will learn from this I'm sure. I know he made the point of Forest made lots of changes, but they can afford to because on paper their squad looks better. How many kids did they have on the pitch? Two more games against the red dogs to redeem ourselves thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Eagle's Barmy Army Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Ruda Harliss said: I’m guessing you didn’t queue for 2 hrs for a ticket and actually go tonight . If everybody just sat on their backside waiting fit the long term plan to happen the support would be poor, Depends what you class as poor. I think moaning about queuing for a ticket for 2 hours is poor when others would have taken your place. Id have enjoyed watching the academy boys because I prefer this way the club is heading. I don’t care if it was Forest or not, I don’t get that uptight about losing to them especially when it means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Eagle's Barmy Army Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Ruda Harliss said: Good for you ♥️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboy63 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 5 hours ago, RandomAccessMemory said: No one can, but it was a possibility as we played Holmes in that position in his place (as we did yesterday). Whether we would have and then whether that would have made a difference to the rest of the season is anyone's guess. Our chances of winning the Championship (and lets not forget that to achieve our ultimate goal we don't actually have to win the Championship, we could come second or win the play offs and it still gets us what we want) are much higher than winning a cup, we are expected to be amongst the stronger teams in the Championship, where as there are at least 20 teams with more resources to call upon than us in the cups. If we actually ended the season with promotion would anyone really care about this result in the grand scheme of things? Actually, if we ended the season with promotion but lost 3 times to Forest during it (yesterday and twice in the league) would anyone care? We'd have achieved the ultimate goal of the season after all with the promotion. Games and seasons both hang on decisions that managers have to make, whether Cocu's team selection yesterday helps us in the long run will be something that no one can know at this point, but he's obviously made that choice for a reason. There's also no guarantee our strongest team would have won the game. Let's not forget we lost to Forest last season at their place in the league. If we'd have played our strongest team yesterday and lost because we're not in our stride yet what would that do to morale both in the camp and amongst the fanbase? Also, if we'd have played our strongest team and lost when would the young players get their chance to show Cocu what they can do? They wouldn't have played and there would be no more cup games until January. I posted in the Overreaction thread about how many games we ended up playing last season because of our cup runs, 57 games including cup and play off games, we apparently used 28 players throughout the season (Villa played 52 and apparently used 35) if we'd have had anything like the same amount this season and were expected to go close to full strength in all of them then that's an awful lot of games for some to play. We also have a smaller squad this season, and some players that already have injury issues, I don't think we could take those kind of unnecessary risks with players fitness or the potential of suspensions when promotion out of the league is more achievable (and vastly more profitable for the club) than winning a cup would be this season. There is no problem with his appointment its how long it took to do it As a club we messed about to long over FL when it was clear to everybody he was going to Chelsea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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