Game of Thrones Season 8

[DarkFruitsRam7]

20 minutes ago, David said:

I was led to believe the TV series was only based on the books and early on went a different direction from them? If that is the case, not sure what relevance that has unless he’s not been writing the show as he’s busy writing the books. I’ve heard people doubt he will even finish the books.

Bought the first one years ago, right chunky thing it was with text you would need a telescope to read so didn’t bother with it.

The first few seasons followed the books pretty faithfully, with a few minor (and welcome) changes. They started to diverge a bit more but still with guidance from GRRM until the end of Season 5, which is where the book material stopped.

I’m led to believe that GRRM essentially gave the writers bullet points on how he planned to finish the series, but I can see the books (if he ever finishes them, which is highly doubtful) playing out very differently. The writers got it right in Season 6 but the quality and depth of writing has definitely declined in the last couple of seasons. The spectacle is arguably the best in television history but the writing has become a little lazy, rushed and, at times, nonsensical. I heard someone suggest that this is in part down to the fact that they are so scared of plot details getting leaked, meaning that very few people check over the script.

It’s a shame because, if I had been working on something for over a decade, I would want to make sure it was as close to perfect as you can possibly get. This will be the writers’ legacies.

[GenBr]

21 minutes ago, David said:

I was led to believe the TV series was only based on the books and early on went a different direction from them? If that is the case, not sure what relevance that has unless he’s not been writing the show as he’s busy writing the books. I’ve heard people doubt he will even finish the books.

Bought the first one years ago, right chunky thing it was with text you would need a telescope to read so didn’t bother with it.

Its only the last 2 seasons that have basically had no source material to draw from. G.R.R.M has no involvement with the show anymore. They basically had a few bullet points to work with and that was it. They had to flesh it out, continue character development, provide dialogue, etc all by themselves and they aren't capable of doing it to the standard of G.R.R.M.

I do not believe he will finish the books either - he has released other books whilst we've been waiting for the next Game of Thrones - I don't think he has the motivation to finish it anymore. However the nosedive the show has taken will be excellent for G.R.R.M's wallet if he does ever manage to get another book out - people will be paying silly money for the next two books now.

[Day]

10 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

I heard someone suggest that this is in part down to the fact that they are so scared of plot details getting leaked, meaning that very few people check over the script.

Well that sounds more nonsense than my theory on hype and expectation ?

[Day]

3 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Its only the last 2 seasons that have basically had no source material to draw from. G.R.R.M has no involvement with the show anymore. They basically had a few bullet points to work with and that was it. They had to flesh it out, continue character development, provide dialogue, etc all by themselves and they aren't capable of doing it to the standard of G.R.R.M.

I do not believe he will finish the books either - he has released other books whilst we've been waiting for the next Game of Thrones - I don't think he has the motivation to finish it anymore. However the nosedive the show has taken will be excellent for G.R.R.M's wallet if he does ever manage to get another book out - people will be paying silly money for the next two books now.

What has been his reasoning for passing on the baton then, seems a bit nuts to take it this far then abandon it come the ending, to me that looks like he’s bottled it as he knew he didn’t have an ending that would be suitable so hid behind new writers which he can blame. 

Would explain the time it’s taken to finish the books.

[maxjam]

14 minutes ago, David said:

What has been his reasoning for passing on the baton then, seems a bit nuts to take it this far then abandon it come the ending, to me that looks like he’s bottled it as he knew he didn’t have an ending that would be suitable so hid behind new writers which he can blame. 

Would explain the time it’s taken to finish the books.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/07/george-rr-martin-wishes-finished-game-thrones-books-sooner-honestly-8843537/

Doesn't say a lot other than he is working on the next book (and has plans for the next (and final) one after its done).  He hasn't been involved in the latest season and the character arcs are the tv writers own.

Its a pity that he never got to finish them before the show as the drop off in quality has been really noticeable.

[Mr. P]

I get the feeling the actors weren't impressed with how it ended either.

 

[Day]

Just come across this, from himself 

“The show has achieved such popularity around the world, the books have been so popular and so well reviewed, that every time I sit down I’m very conscious I have to do something great, and trying to do something great is a considerable weight to bear,”

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/nov/10/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-interview

Explains why it’s taking so long and talks about the struggles of writing, dare I say that this popularity or “hype” as I put it is the reason why he chose to focus on finishing the books, knowing he couldn’t give the TV show the ending fans wanted?

Also this...

'Game Of Thrones' Author George R.R. Martin 'Never Anticipated' The Show Getting Ahead Of The Books

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2019/03/06/game-of-thrones-author-george-r-r-martin-never-anticipated-the-show-getting-ahead-of-the-books/

So whilst what I said maybe nonsense, I’m not completely way off in that the show got too big. The blokes 70 years old, tasked with 2 more books which will take insane levels of creativity and storytelling which he feels compelled to complete to a high level.

[SaintRam]

38 minutes ago, David said:

What has been his reasoning for passing on the baton then, seems a bit nuts to take it this far then abandon it come the ending, to me that looks like he’s bottled it as he knew he didn’t have an ending that would be suitable so hid behind new writers which he can blame. 

Would explain the time it’s taken to finish the books.

On his reasoning, if one was being cynical, you might imagine it's pretty close to impossible for HIS conclusion to the story to not be well received now; following the TV shows debacle. Just a thought. ? 

I think the broad strokes of the narrative are going to be similar, if not the same, but it will all be far less jarring (and the dialogue + character development will be written in a far superior manner).

[DarkFruitsRam7]

7 minutes ago, David said:

Explains why it’s taking so long and talks about the struggles of writing, dare I say that this popularity or “hype” as I put it is the reason why he chose to focus on finishing the books, knowing he couldn’t give the TV show the ending fans wanted?

Pretty sure the reason he doesn't involve himself with the TV show now is because of creative differences. In particular, he was apparently really disappointed that the show writers didn't choose to

 

Book spoilers!!!

 

bring Catelyn Stark back from the dead as a vengeful half-human half-zombie sort of thing.

Any chance of getting one of those 'view spoiler' features?

[GenBr]

30 minutes ago, David said:

What has been his reasoning for passing on the baton then, seems a bit nuts to take it this far then abandon it come the ending, to me that looks like he’s bottled it as he knew he didn’t have an ending that would be suitable so hid behind new writers which he can blame. 

Would explain the time it’s taken to finish the books.

There have been some quotes from G.R.R.M suggesting he hasn't been happy with the way some aspects of the show have gone. His official reason for leaving the tv show was, so he could have more time to finish the next book, which clearly hasn't happened. I believe he has an ending and it probably will be broadly similar to the major plot points of the TV show, but his books are an unwieldy beast of a saga - there are a lot of characters who don't feature at all in the TV show and he has to weave them all together somehow. He also has a large team of people cross checking his books to make sure its not contradicting his earlier stuff or ignoring plot points, etc, which HBO clearly dont have.. If the end of the books was similar to the tv show I dont think most people would mind - its the execution in the tv show that is the issue. Everyone could die in the books and most people would probably still be happy as long as you don't just turn the page and suddenly a meteor comes out of nowhere and wipes out all life in Westeros.

On the bright side D&D are off to flog the dead horse that is the Star Wars franchise after this and that can't get any worse after epsiode 8, so at least they won't be able to ruin any other franchises that are still going strong for a while.

[SillyBilly]

Season 8 has been truly atrocious from a writing perspective. 

Galling to watch 8 seasons of Varys masterfully orchestrating deceitful schemes to basically being snitched on by Tyrion and then executed a couple of mins later. Arc ended. Its as if the writers wanted inconvenient "loose ends" (that have taken years to be arrived at) tied up in a 30 second reel.

Shocking endings or unexpected twists is something GOT has done well in the past but this season the quality of the writing really has been of an average to poor hollywood movie standard. Given the money thrown at it this season obviously will have its moments but well and truly killed it for me. Feels like the character journeys / plot development has meant nothing this season and its been a race to just end it, disappointing.

[TigerTedd]

 It sure if I loved it or hated it. There were definitely good moments. I had dust in my eye for Tyrion and Jamie’s good bye. The tension built up while they were waiting for the bell to ring was unbearable, then Dany obliterates everything anyway. Clegane bowl was pretty good, maybe not the spectacle it was quite built up to be, maybe would’ve been better in a clearing in the woods by a river, like the black knight. I really liked Arya’s part. She looked properly shell shocked. I think it was ultimately saying that they lived through the attack of the army of the dead, and they thought they’d seen horrors, but what the living can do to each other is far worse. It was quite exhausting to watch. 

I like dany’s character. I like jaime’s redemption. I’m sad that they’re characters went the way they did. But got has always been about the good and bad in everyone, nobody’s perfect. And this episode really hammered that point home. Characters we hoped would come good disappoint us, because they’re more complex than just being the good guy or the bad guy.

The more I think about it, it all makes perfect sense. Those bitching about it really need to heed the words of Ramsay Bolton:

‘If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.’

[TigerTedd]

That being said, I’m very much looking forward to the books now, and seeing GRRMs version of all this. These past two seasons have been undeniably rushed, and suffered from an artistic perspective, but these are the limitations of TV. Should’ve made it an animation if they wanted it to go forever. 

But I can see that this is roughly what GRRM was aiming for. The main character arcs do make sense in GoT logic. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

Surely now there is no iron throne, either physically or figuratively. And perhaps that's the point. We have come full circle, with a mad Targaryan now in charge. The message that should not be lost on any of the survivors is that if the game goes on as long as the throne exists, it is better that the throne does not exist.

[Mr. P]

So is Arya Death riding the pale horse with Hades following? Has dany got green eyes?

[Alph]

3 hours ago, David said:

Not trolling, just getting that out the way.

I predicted this and could see it coming, Game of Thrones has been massively hyped up through the power of social media to be the best show ever created. 

Problem with that is it’s built up expectations, expectations which would never be fulfilled. There wasn’t ever going to be an ending that was universally liked and enjoyed, became impossible. 

The 2 years between seasons has only added more hype, more expectation, fans have invested so much time into the show, 8 years! 

This is the exact reason I try to avoid hyped up series now, I don’t go into anything with expectations and have enjoyed many good shows, but none that I would go crazy over OMG THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER.

Some will say this is nonsense, claim it’s purely down to a rushed storyline, but you watch any show and you will find nonsense in the storyline which will not ruin your enjoyment because it was never billed up to be something great.

For me it hasn't flopped like that. It could have had half the budget and been less epic but still would have been satisfying.

What's a let down is characters not following characteristics. They might as well have just made one film because they've spent the best part of a decade plotting and scheming and being subtle. They've developed deep characters with many complex levels. Take any character and for dozens of episodes they have acted in predictable yet thrilling ways. 

Then they stop and starts doing stuff that's unpredictable and uncharacteristic. 

The first 7 seasons are always going to be fantastic. As is Breaking Bad. I don't know if you've been reading teenage girls magazines for all this "hype". I don't follow hype. It didn't get me into the show, it hasn't ruined it for me, I've waited patiently rather than hysterically for each season since season 3. But I am a fan of the show and it didn't disappoint so much as it alienated. 

They might as well have killed Dany off and let the Night King do all that. He was a bland character. He had no depth. But he was scary and killing everything was his only role. Dany was nothing like that for 70 hours of TV.

 

I was kinda on board when she landed the Dragon. Shes always had a bad temper. But then she went off murdering which was... well... the Night King. 

[Mr. P]

The Mountain was harder to kill than a chocolate hobnob soaked in a cup of tea! The Night King was a pussy in comparison! 

[Day]

Is it just these last 2 episodes that are that bad? Been following the thread as I have limited interest in who ends up on the throne after the 3 seasons of my time I gave it. You all seemed to be enjoying it, then all of a sudden it’s dropped off a cliff the last couple of weeks. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

10 minutes ago, Alpha said:

For me it hasn't flopped like that. It could have had half the budget and been less epic but still would have been satisfying.

What's a let down is characters not following characteristics. They might as well have just made one film because they've spent the best part of a decade plotting and scheming and being subtle. They've developed deep characters with many complex levels. Take any character and for dozens of episodes they have acted in predictable yet thrilling ways. 

Then they stop and starts doing stuff that's unpredictable and uncharacteristic. 

The first 7 seasons are always going to be fantastic. As is Breaking Bad. I don't know if you've been reading teenage girls magazines for all this "hype". I don't follow hype. It didn't get me into the show, it hasn't ruined it for me, I've waited patiently rather than hysterically for each season since season 3. But I am a fan of the show and it didn't disappoint so much as it alienated. 

They might as well have killed Dany off and let the Night King do all that. He was a bland character. He had no depth. But he was scary and killing everything was his only role. Dany was nothing like that for 70 hours of TV.

 

I was kinda on board when she landed the Dragon. Shes always had a bad temper. But then she went off murdering which was... well... the Night King. 

Except she was like that - the crucifixion of slave owners in Mareen, the execution of the bloke who murdered a prisoner, the torching of the Tarly father and son - all vengeful.

And it's not as if the history of mental problems in her family have been kept secret.

The Jaime thing I don't really understand but I can understand the lure of an ex-girlfriend even when he is comfortable in a new relationship.?

[ariotofmyown]

4 hours ago, GenBr said:

Jon and Davos pretty much the only characters that haven't been completely ruined at this point.

In the final episode, Davos goes back up to Winterfell and tells Sam that he killed Cersei. Sam tells Jon, then Jon kills Sam for making up stories because he is fat. It turns out Jon was gay all the time and that is why he didn't get it on with his aunty. The final half hour of the entire series is Jon rehearsing in the mirror how he will tell Sansa he likes men. The show end with him saying "I'm ready" and it fades to black. If you look back, it all makes sense.