A question for Derby fans...

[KCG]

5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

We all know that opinion on NC is split and always leads to the same arguments.

 

What argument? He was/is crap, end of!

[SilentRam]

On 18/11/2018 at 21:24, ronnieronalde said:

Which cup riuns were they?

Man United league cup semis he was newly appointed manager. So I am not sure why I attributed that cup run to him. Apologies! 

[Smyth_18]

If he wasn't Brian Clough's son he would never have got the Derby job. It's as simple as that.

His post match interviews at Burton are absolutely hilarious and disgusting at the same time.

Last week he was moaning that one of his players should have scored a free kick.

 

I don't like the bloke. Respect the job he did at Derby, but it was the right decision to move on.

[IronRam 140.6]

On 18/11/2018 at 21:28, ronnieronalde said:

I don't mind seeing threads like this at all. I never ducked or hid from a controversial thread on him. Just others who don't like it when I try to defend him back and usually with stats. I even quite  enjoyed Kris Common's comments on him.

I bumped into a forner Rams player of that era t'other night in ze pub. A clough stalwart. Although it wasnt condusive to success,  as an ex military person, I liked Cloughs approach to man mangement. Spade was a spade it seemed to me. 

Now, as mystery footballer was being rather open and chatty (it was remembrance sunday, I was in my medals & finery and he was genuinely interested in us) I, full of Glenmorangie flavoured truth serum struck.

I asked what he was like to play for, was he really that bloke I hoped he was? The reply was thus (slightly, condensed)

"Yeah that basically, he loved flat out 100% ers. You put it in, even if you had a bad game the 100% meant more than the mare of a personal performance. He HATED Kris Commons types who sacheted nonchalantly  around knowing they were good but only once in 5 games" 

For that alone I'm in. We also talked about Shaun Barker and the uneccessary but good thing he did squaring him away with a conrraxt while probably not going to play again.

Was that an insurance or lack of thing? 

[ronnieronalde]

18 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

If he wasn't Brian Clough's son he would never have got the Derby job. It's as simple as that.

His post match interviews at Burton are absolutely hilarious and disgusting at the same time.

Last week he was moaning that one of his players should have scored a free kick.

 

I don't like the bloke. Respect the job he did at Derby, but it was the right decision to move on.

You hear what you want hear and pick out what you want to pick out.

Did you not hear him praise the players on s magnificent performance and single out players for special praise? I guess you missed thet one?

Read a thread on the Burton forum to see what brewers fans think of him and some of his interviews. Not to mention style of play and siginings made.

Would Frank lampard have got the job of his name wasn't Frank lampard?

Ridiculous view point blinded by hatred.

[ronnieronalde]

42 minutes ago, IronRam 70.3 said:

I bumped into a forner Rams player of that era t'other night in ze pub. A clough stalwart. Although it wasnt condusive to success,  as an ex military person, I liked Cloughs approach to man mangement. Spade was a spade it seemed to me. 

Now, as mystery footballer was being rather open and chatty (it was remembrance sunday, I was in my medals & finery and he was genuinely interested in us) I, full of Glenmorangie flavoured truth serum struck.

I asked what he was like to play for, was he really that bloke I hoped he was? The reply was thus (slightly, condensed)

"Yeah that basically, he loved flat out 100% ers. You put it in, even if you had a bad game the 100% meant more than the mare of a personal performance. He HATED Kris Commons types who sacheted nonchalantly  around knowing they were good but only once in 5 games" 

For that alone I'm in. We also talked about Shaun Barker and the uneccessary but good thing he did squaring him away with a conrraxt while probably not going to play again.

Was that an insurance or lack of thing? 

The Barker contract was simply him looking after a bloke who had his life put on hold for putting his body on the line for Derby. I loved him and doing that, the right thing to do.

There are so many current and ex players who talk about is man management style and his way of looking after them that I don't and won't get this garbagee spouted that he's a poor manager or that he's crap.

Will Hughes two or three weeks ago saying Clough was his biggest influence on and off the pitch. Will Hughes isn't some thick no brain sunday lesgue player.

So many of hisos ex players go back to play for him but the fans, the ones who think they know best think he can't man manage cos he criticised someone when they duck up.

It's such one sided hate or dislike it's not even funny  I'd point some of them to yesterday sportscene interview which was brilliantly insightful with him Aaron Webster and Keith Gilroy but there's a comment on there about how  he should probably have left Derby after the first four months once he'd done his job and kept them up. That means over aggressive fools will ignore everything else and focus on that cos it fits their agenda. 

He looks after his players, he builds squads with brilliant team spirits and cracking work ethics,  he's done it again at Burton this season on a shoe string yet fools think he can't manage?

It makes no sense.

I get that hes not everyone's cup of tea but to spout garbage like hes crap end of is just stupid and narrow minded. 

Glad you had a good time chatting to whoever it was Sunday pal, and thanks for putting yout own body on he line to be there for your country.

My brother was an ex army boy. Wasn't decorated I don't think.

Huge respect and admiration.

[Wolfie20]

Irrespective of where he sits on the crap to brilliant scale, my opinion is that he did a good job for us given the tools he had to work with but went at the right time - I'd lost confidence in the likelihood that he could bring the level of success most fans were looking for, though saying that, to date, none of his successors have either.

Out of interest, given all you've said regarding his man management skills, what was your view on the Cywka incident and Cloughs' post-match comments. I thought that was cruel.

[Ramarena]

What a wierd thread for a non Derby fan to start...........surely we should be discussing what an amazing manager lambert is instead!

Feels more like a honey trap for @ronnieronalde

[ronnieronalde]

24 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Irrespective of where he sits on the crap to brilliant scale, my opinion is that he did a good job for us given the tools he had to work with but went at the right time - I'd lost confidence in the likelihood that he could bring the level of success most fans were looking for, though saying that, to date, none of his successors have either.

Out of interest, given all you've said regarding his man management skills, what was your view on the Cywka incident and Cloughs' post-match comments. I thought that was cruel.

I've never spoken to him or anyone close to him about it but I didn't like it either. Especially as I think Tomasz was  very unlucky not to get a free kick.

I'm not trying to justify it either but I do think it got blown out of all proportion, by Gordon Taylor especially.  

I do wish sometimes he waited before giving post match interviews as he always says exactly what's on his mind, after a defeat or a poor performance he's unable to bite his tongue. His interviews on a Monday would be very different from his interviews Saturday at 5pm.

What I can say and promise even is he's not saying anything he wouldn't have said to the player and all he does is try to get his message through, if they stop listening or won't listen then he is likely to freeze them out.

Tomasz should have put his foor through and he would know that.

I'm 16, I'm playing my fifth or 6th game for AC Hunters, I've listened to him, his dad and Simon tell me how to play.  I'm playing left wing, NIge is lino. We're winning 2-1, I've made one and scored the other direct from a corner. ( i wasn't as good as that sounds).

We get a LAST MINUTE corner, he tells me to play it short, I know I should play it short, his dad tells his players to play it short. I know what to do.

duck that, I'm scoring again.

I float it into the keepers arms, he kicks it long, one bounce they score, 2-2, two points dropped. Nige rightly goes mental at me. Next week and all week he spends telling me how good everything else was, how my corners were weapons, how he was proud of how hard I;d worked for a young lad against blokes, he made me feel ten foot tall. I kept my place, I kept taking the corners. I'd learned my lesson.

All anyone else remembers is him giving me a hammering and me hiding in the corner of the dressing room.

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I've never spoken to him or anyone close to him about it but I didn't like it either. Especially as I think Tomasz was  very unlucky not to get a free kick.

I'm not trying to justify it either but I do think it got blown out of all proportion, by Gordon Taylor especially.  

I do wish sometimes he waited before giving post match interviews as he always says exactly what's on his mind, after a defeat or a poor performance he's unable to bite his tongue. His interviews on a Monday would be very different from his interviews Saturday at 5pm.

What I can say and promise even is he's not saying anything he wouldn't have said to the player and all he does is try to get his message through, if they stop listening or won't listen then he is likely to freeze them out.

Tomasz should have put his foor through and he would know that.

I'm 16, I'm playing my fifth or 6th game for AC Hunters, I've listened to him, his dad and Simon tell me how to play.  I'm playing left wing, NIge is lino. We're winning 2-1, I've made one and scored the other direct from a corner. ( i wasn't as good as that sounds).

We get a corner, he tells me to play it short, I know I should play it short, his dad tells his players to play it short. I know what to do.

duck that, I'm scoring again.

I float it into the keepers arms, he kicks it long, one bounce they score, 2-2, two points dropped. Nige rightly goes mental at me. Next week and all week he spends telling me how good everything else was, how my corners were weapons, how he was proud of how hard I;d worked for a young lad against blokes, he made me feel ten foot tall. I kept my place, I kept taking the corners. I'd learned my lesson.

All anyone else remembers is him giving me a hammering and me hiding in the corner of the dressing room.

Listened to Nigel on Radio Derby last night and really enjoyed it. 

He is doing a very good job at Burton and has done so much really for that club. 

I say all the best to the guy. 

[mozza]

I wish him well anorl. 

[Smyth_18]

1 hour ago, ronnieronalde said:

You hear what you want hear and pick out what you want to pick out.

Did you not hear him praise the players on s magnificent performance and single out players for special praise? I guess you missed thet one?

Read a thread on the Burton forum to see what brewers fans think of him and some of his interviews. Not to mention style of play and siginings made.

Would Frank lampard have got the job of his name wasn't Frank lampard?

Ridiculous view point blinded by hatred.

Odd reply as I clearly stated I respect the job he did for us. No hatred there.

Frank Lampard got the job based on his leadership at the highest level. His contacts in the game. His fresh ideas. No sentimental connection to Derby County and nothing to do with his Dad.

[ronnieronalde]

10 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

Odd reply as I clearly stated I respect the job he did for us. No hatred there.

Frank Lampard got the job based on his leadership at the highest level. His contacts in the game. His fresh ideas. No sentimental connection to Derby County and nothing to do with his Dad.

I'll respect that and your posts on the subject a lot more the next time I see a post from you after one of his very positive interviews and not just one that uses words like disgusting and horrible.

He got the Derby job based on a lot of things, one of which was his family connection. Nowt wrong with that, his old man did more for this club than most and it's almost the same as people shouting for Igor or Dean Saunders or Gary Rowett to get the job as ex Derby legends (despite only ever playing 100 games??)

He got the job because at the time Derby were well and truly in the poo financially, going backwards quickly results wise and the manager before did a runner on the back of a virtual mental breakdown. He couldn't handle it it was so bad!!

I don't believe there was a massive pool to choose from.

He got the job as well cos he'd done a brilliant job at a club just down the road and he brought guaranteed stability and a knowledge that he wouldn't bugger off at the first sign of trouble or success.

[Rev]

The Cwyka incident was the low spot for me, but it's harsh to judge a good manager by the worse thing he did.

 

 

[Comrade 86]

Ref the Cykwa thing, we all have days where we say things we regret. At least I know I do. I think Nigel did ok for us under pretty difficult circumstances. The team that Mac took to Wembley wasn't that different to the one Nigel assembled and there were signs of what was to come before Nigel left. That's to his credit IMO.

[G STAR RAM]

@ronnieronalde just an idea but do you think one of NCs downfalls is that he thinks what works for one player/club will work for all?

Professional footballers seem to get more precious the more money they are paid in my opinion.

Having no insight into his managerial approach, this is a genuine question rather than an accusation!

 

[ronnieronalde]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

@ronnieronalde just an idea but do you think one of NCs downfalls is that he thinks what works for one player/club will work for all?

Professional footballers seem to get more precious the more money they are paid in my opinion.

Having no insight into his managerial approach, this is a genuine question rather than an accusation!

 

I can't answer that as for me he's been fired twice and both times were harsh. I don't see any downfall other than impatience from club owners and fans. Fair enough that he had a lot longer at Derby and was given time, if not too much financial backing.

The downfall I see is that fans and money men can't (or don't) always see the state of the team and what's being built.  Once they've turned, they've turned and then good things get ignored and bad things get highlighted.

It's still very rare to see anyone on here admit that we were playing very good football already in the season he got fired.  We were, I saw it with my own eyes. Fair enough for those who say Steve took it to another level, I won't argue.

It's still not safe for me to remind people that in the corresponding fixtures, Steve had an identical points haul with one more goal scored and one less conceded.

Or that NC had for the first time come out and said he had a squad capable of competing for the play offs.  I still take a bit of stick for it and get accused of being blinkered. I'm not, I just believe in him and his methods.

I wish others enjoyed the same kind of faith and I don' mean towards NC, I mean in general, it's a really nice feeling to trust the manager of the team you follow. I think you lot should be feeling that feeling right now with Frank, not everything he does will come off but everything he does is for the right reason.

In my opinion (and it is just my opinion, I'm not asking anyone else to agree) he builds teams the way I like to see. I'm not racist in the slightest but I do prefer teams in England to be built around British players. I like to see clubs bring players through the ranks and I don't like to see clubs throwing millions at it, although I'm prepared to admit I may change that if he ever had millions to spend.

There was never a better time for me as a Derby fans as to those seasons with Hughes, Hendrick, Bennett, O'Brien, Freeman coming through, knowing a couple of them would go on to be worth a fortune and hoping NC would see the benefit of that. It's a brave manager who plays two or three 15, 16 and 17 years olds in the championship while his job is on the line.

He has faults, he makes mistakes, it was judged he wasn't good enough for either Derby or Sheffield United, which is fine and fair enough but it won't  change the fact I think he's a good manager. Certainly not in the top one like his old man was but still good.

[Zag zig]

58 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Ref the Cykwa thing, we all have days where we say things we regret. At least I know I do. I think Nigel did ok for us under pretty difficult circumstances. The team that Mac took to Wembley wasn't that different to the one Nigel assembled and there were signs of what was to come before Nigel left. That's to his credit IMO.

That’s fair to me.

Steadying the ship, cutting the cloth and bringing in fresh blood trial and error, some hit, some miss was a considerable achievement on such a budget. Bringing odd youth players, Hendricks, Hughes and to a lesser extent trying with O’Brien wasn’t so bad.

He did ok, people need to let it be. We’ve moved on......most of us.

[ramsbottom]

On 18/11/2018 at 21:14, NorwichLad said:

Not really as it specifically relates to the former Derby Chief Scout and comments he made about Nigel Clough ignoring his 18 page opposition reports whilst Derby County manager, and its interesting to see that he had a pretty poor win record across his tenure. 

The same scout played under Brian Clough and noted that he also ignored them, but could get away with it because he had the best side in the country. 

Even though Nigel is pretty old school in his methods, I doubt he would rock up at an away game with absolutely no knowledge of how that team play.  I'd quite like to read these quotes as I can imagine they're not entirely accurate...

On 18/11/2018 at 21:19, NorwichLad said:

Apart from the ones who were advocating his return after you sacked Rowett, of which there were quite a few. 

Feel free to tally those posts up, cus I'd be surprised if it was more than half a dozen Tony from Belper types who still kiss a picture of his Dad goodnight each night.

You spend a lot of time on a Derby forum considering your allegiances don't you.  You're own fans sick of you or something??

[StringerBell]

On 18/11/2018 at 21:16, NorwichLad said:

Presumably because that was his job and if he didn't do his job he would lose that job wouldn't be able to pay the mortgage and pay his kids. That's like asking a supermarket checkout girl why she bothers to scan your cornflakes. 

I always read my cornflakes.