A question for Derby fans...

[NorwichLad]

In the 21st century if you had a manager who didn't bother to read the opposition reports produced by club scouts who traveled the length and breadth of the country to glean every bit of information that they could get on opposing teams in the weeks leading up to a fixture against them, that would concern you wouldn't it? 

Successful managers seem to hoover up this stuff and meticulously plan based on these reports, every club has scouts watching opposition. E.g. You will have a scout watching Wigan against Reading, Blackburn and Bolton in the coming weeks, ahead of your fixture against them on 8th December.

And without a shadow of a doubt Lampard and Morris will be going through this information with a fine tooth comb and working their game plan based on this information, that is modern football management. 

So if you hypothetically had a manager who didn't do this, you'd expect them to be in the Conference South or something where teams simply don't have the resources do to this stuff and where teams can sign non-contract players today and start them tomorrow, so things have to be a lot more primitive.

Obviously Lampard and Farke will use this data/info, but you wouldn't expect a manager to be successful at this level whilst knowing next to nothing about the opposition? 

There is a reason why I'm asking Derby fans this question. 

[cannable]

This feels like a loaded question. 

Who’s doing well without scouting? 

[Steve How Hard?]

6 minutes ago, cannable said:

This feels like a loaded question. 

Who’s doing well without scouting? 

Farke knows.

[Coneheadjohn]

Is it Rowett?

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, NorwichLad said:

In the 21st century if you had a manager who didn't bother to read the opposition reports produced by club scouts who traveled the length and breadth of the country to glean every bit of information that they could get on opposing teams in the weeks leading up to a fixture against them, that would concern you wouldn't it? 

Successful managers seem to hoover up this stuff and meticulously plan based on these reports, every club has scouts watching opposition. E.g. You will have a scout watching Wigan against Reading, Blackburn and Bolton in the coming weeks, ahead of your fixture against them on 8th December.

And without a shadow of a doubt Lampard and Morris will be going through this information with a fine tooth comb and working their game plan based on this information, that is modern football management. 

So if you hypothetically had a manager who didn't do this, you'd expect them to be in the Conference South or something where teams simply don't have the resources do to this stuff and where teams can sign non-contract players today and start them tomorrow, so things have to be a lot more primitive.

Obviously Lampard and Farke will use this data/info, but you wouldn't expect a manager to be successful at this level whilst knowing next to nothing about the opposition? 

There is a reason why I'm asking Derby fans this question. 

The suspense is killing me. Go on then, why are you asking Derby fans?

[NorwichLad]

21 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

The suspense is killing me. Go on then, why are you asking Derby fans?

I was just extremely surprised that according to a former Derby chief scout, Nigel Clough did not read these opposition reports at Derby so went into games completely blind. 

He seems to be held in high esteem by Derby fans despite not really achieving anything, but it sounds like he didn't actually change his methods from managing in non-league, I find that quite enlightening, and yet there are Derby fans who would have him back. Probably not now, but pre-Lampard. 

It may explain why Clough won far fewer games than he lost whilst at Derby if he couldn't be bothered to read the reports which would tell him that the team he's facing next Saturday are, for example, excellent at set pieces and are successful with a particularly routine... its basically the cornerstone of match preparation the week before the game isn't it and in some cases team selection? 

[mozza]

Clement watched Utd,  i heard. 

[bigbadbob]

20 minutes ago, NorwichLad said:

I was just extremely surprised that according to a former Derby chief scout, Nigel Clough did not read these opposition reports at Derby so went into games completely blind. 

He seems to be held in high esteem by Derby fans despite not really achieving anything, but it sounds like he didn't actually change his methods from managing in non-league, I find that quite enlightening, and yet there are Derby fans who would have him back. Probably not now, but pre-Lampard. 

It may explain why Clough won far fewer games than he lost whilst at Derby if he couldn't be bothered to read the reports which would tell him that the team he's facing next Saturday are, for example, excellent at set pieces and are successful with a particularly routine... its basically the cornerstone of match preparation the week before the game isn't it and in some cases team selection? 

Don't worry about it

[cannable]

40 minutes ago, NorwichLad said:

I was just extremely surprised that according to a former Derby chief scout, Nigel Clough did not read these opposition reports at Derby so went into games completely blind. 

He seems to be held in high esteem by Derby fans despite not really achieving anything, but it sounds like he didn't actually change his methods from managing in non-league, I find that quite enlightening, and yet there are Derby fans who would have him back. Probably not now, but pre-Lampard. 

It may explain why Clough won far fewer games than he lost whilst at Derby if he couldn't be bothered to read the reports which would tell him that the team he's facing next Saturday are, for example, excellent at set pieces and are successful with a particularly routine... its basically the cornerstone of match preparation the week before the game isn't it and in some cases team selection? 

He can spot a player and he can implement a philosophy on a side.

He was the one who actually had us playing good football whilst trimming the wage bill from top three to bottom six. 

This news doesn’t surprise me however. His coaching was old school (we were notoriously bad at set pieces under him) and tactically he wasn’t all there. 

By the time he was sacked he was, ironically, holding the team he had built back. 

He took his dad’s approach to management but didn’t evolve it. Even to the extent that his system in his last two seasons was pretty much like his dad’s in the 70s.

If you were to tell me that he’s open to a job as ‘Director of Football’ I’d appoint him in a heartbeat. I’d have had him back in the summer as we needed rebuilding job doing and seemingly whilst cutting costs. 

I’ve mentioned before but Lampard’s replicated Clough and McClaren’s work with us in six months!

[SilentRam]

44 minutes ago, NorwichLad said:

I was just extremely surprised that according to a former Derby chief scout, Nigel Clough did not read these opposition reports at Derby so went into games completely blind. 

He seems to be held in high esteem by Derby fans despite not really achieving anything, but it sounds like he didn't actually change his methods from managing in non-league, I find that quite enlightening, and yet there are Derby fans who would have him back. Probably not now, but pre-Lampard. 

It may explain why Clough won far fewer games than he lost whilst at Derby if he couldn't be bothered to read the reports which would tell him that the team he's facing next Saturday are, for example, excellent at set pieces and are successful with a particularly routine... its basically the cornerstone of match preparation the week before the game isn't it and in some cases team selection? 

I doubt that many Derby fans ever wanted him back. And I hate generalising as I speak for myself and not an entire fanbase but during the Clough era, our marquee signings were Shaun Barker at 1 million pounds. His post game comments were always amateur and it was a few cup runs that helped him keep his job as long as he did.

Not surprised that he doesn't read the opposition reports. His arrogance and immaturity is why he is coaching at Burton and not at a higher level. 

[ilkleyram]

It is possible that he read the reports, thought they were rubbish and discounted them, before eventually getting rid of the chief scout 

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, NorwichLad said:

I was just extremely surprised that according to a former Derby chief scout, Nigel Clough did not read these opposition reports at Derby so went into games completely blind.  

He seems to be held in high esteem by Derby fans despite not really achieving anything, but it sounds like he didn't actually change his methods from managing in non-league, I find that quite enlightening, and yet there are Derby fans who would have him back. Probably not now, but pre-Lampard. 

It may explain why Clough won far fewer games than he lost whilst at Derby if he couldn't be bothered to read the reports which would tell him that the team he's facing next Saturday are, for example, excellent at set pieces and are successful with a particularly routine... its basically the cornerstone of match preparation the week before the game isn't it and in some cases team selection? 

Depends on your definition of not achieving anything. He took over at a time Davies and Jewell had spent millions on utter garbage, took over a club hugely in debt and with a massive unsustainable wage bill.

His remit wasn't promotion, certainly not early on, not sure it ever was. His remit was steady a sinking ship, keep us in the championship while offloading expensive flops, not just trimming the wage bill but significantly reducing it, something which many teams have failed to do following relegation from the Premier League, lots of teams have fallen two divisions in quick succession (Norwich being one).

Some have said we may have been better going down again as many clubs (including Norwich) have had a bounce effect doing so, but many (Coventry for example) have not.

He took us from a club skirting with relegation to top half finishes and built a team on a budget which ultimately challenged for promotion, and where very unlucky not to do so. Yes it took someone else in charge to take them to the next level, but McClaren wouldnt have done that without the foundations laid by Clough.

He certainly has his limitations, but while not emulating his Dad at Derby he certainly has a place in their History, without his efforts Lampard probably wouldnt be our manager today challenging again for promotion.

Its also worth stating that his achievement in keeping Burton in the championship for more than one season was a superb achievement in its own right, and something he was also very unlucky not to replicate last season.

 

[King Kevin]

1 hour ago, NorwichLad said:

I was just extremely surprised that according to a former Derby chief scout, Nigel Clough did not read these opposition reports at Derby so went into games completely blind. 

He seems to be held in high esteem by Derby fans despite not really achieving anything, but it sounds like he didn't actually change his methods from managing in non-league, I find that quite enlightening, and yet there are Derby fans who would have him back. Probably not now, but pre-Lampard. 

It may explain why Clough won far fewer games than he lost whilst at Derby if he couldn't be bothered to read the reports which would tell him that the team he's facing next Saturday are, for example, excellent at set pieces and are successful with a particularly routine... its basically the cornerstone of match preparation the week before the game isn't it and in some cases team selection? 

Got that from his dad ,Clough senior never bothered mind you with his Derby side he didn't need to.

[cannable]

2 hours ago, SilentRam said:

I doubt that many Derby fans ever wanted him back. And I hate generalising as I speak for myself and not an entire fanbase but during the Clough era, our marquee signings were Shaun Barker at 1 million pounds. His post game comments were always amateur and it was a few cup runs that helped him keep his job as long as he did.

Not surprised that he doesn't read the opposition reports. His arrogance and immaturity is why he is coaching at Burton and not at a higher level. 

We never went on a cup run under him 

[BobbyD]

2 hours ago, Paul71 said:

Depends on your definition of not achieving anything. He took over at a time Davies and Jewell had spent millions on utter garbage, took over a club hugely in debt and with a massive unsustainable wage bill.

His remit wasn't promotion, certainly not early on, not sure it ever was. His remit was steady a sinking ship, keep us in the championship while offloading expensive flops, not just trimming the wage bill but significantly reducing it, something which many teams have failed to do following relegation from the Premier League, lots of teams have fallen two divisions in quick succession (Norwich being one).

Some have said we may have been better going down again as many clubs (including Norwich) have had a bounce effect doing so, but many (Coventry for example) have not.

He took us from a club skirting with relegation to top half finishes and built a team on a budget which ultimately challenged for promotion, and where very unlucky not to do so. Yes it took someone else in charge to take them to the next level, but McClaren wouldnt have done that without the foundations laid by Clough.

He certainly has his limitations, but while not emulating his Dad at Derby he certainly has a place in their History, without his efforts Lampard probably wouldnt be our manager today challenging again for promotion.

Its also worth stating that his achievement in keeping Burton in the championship for more than one season was a superb achievement in its own right, and something he was also very unlucky not to replicate last season.

 

Can you clairfy exactly what his remit was please ?

You seem to have an awful lot of inside information. What facts are your assertion based on ? 

Please share it with us , you appear to have been very close to the action at that point ? Would love to know the source of your very close insight 

[Philmycock]

Didn't Kris Commons give him some stick for his coaching skills recently, there's a video interview somewhere but really, no-one here cares do they?, he's long gone

PS. Don't let @ronnieronaldesee this thread ?

[RamNut]

This is a question for Burton fans rather than Derby fans.

[Comrade 86]

3 hours ago, NorwichLad said:

 

I've removed the bits of your post that were nonsense. You're welcome! ?

[RamNut]

For what its worth.....i think nigel has spent his entire managerial career doing a reasonable impression of the old, grumpy, pished up, washed up, fan thumping, Brian of the latter days at Forest.

fortunately we had the young, idealistic, charismatic, visionary, Brian.......until it all went to his head.

[Steve How Hard?]

30 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

Can you clairfy exactly what his remit was please ?

You seem to have an awful lot of inside information. What facts are your assertion based on ? 

Please share it with us , you appear to have been very close to the action at that point ? Would love to know the source of your very close insight 

Just playing devils advocate here but what do you think his remit may have been? Would be interested to know your opinion.