Jamie Hanson

[Rambalin]

19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

FFS he's shown little besides being able to kick players. It's not about being from the Academy, its about being good enough. Hughes, Huddlestone. Hendrick they were good enough.

Think there is more to his game than kicking people I remember a game against Middlesbrough a couple of seasons ago where he was excellent alongside Thorne till he got injured.Think it was the 1-1 game with Russell's late goal...most of the midfield got injured that game Thorne basically played midfield on his own in the end.

The three you mentioned are the only three too come through the academy in the last ten plus years and make first team regulars.That would be seen has a success for the academy  I was on a coaches course with the then England U16 manager lecturing and his point was if a academy produced a regular first team player very three years it was doing very well.

If it produces a few more who make a handful of appearances and are then sold for nominal fees it is helping pay for itself, Jamie may like many others who are being highly touted on here may or may not fall into that category.

Rarely do you get a whole group come through at once and if you do then you thank the footballing god's.....one thing you can guarantee with Hanson though is he will always give 100% that is all you ask has a given, his quality is for the manager to decide if it is good enough.

 

[cosmic]

1 hour ago, Gypsy Ram said:

He isn't that good. He's league one at best. No offence, but he just isn't. And he's 22 right? Hrs hardly the future, his stature is small, and he's hardly had a good game.

I understand where you’re coming from, but I’m not willing to write him off just yet. He’s shown us flashes of usefulness - there’s a footballer in there. How many of us were convinced Vydra or Baird (bad example after last week) were crap? All they needed was a proper run in the team used correctly to show what they can do. I don’t think he’ll be taking us into the Prem, but he’s worth having around and given a chance.

(Also, please be aware I’m trying desperately to hold onto any amount of optimism left in my body..!)

[RamNut]

1 minute ago, Beagle said:

  I was on a coaches course with the then England U16 manager lecturing and is point was if a academy produced a regular first team player very three years it was doing very well.

If it produces a few more who make a handful of appearances and are then sold for nominal fees it is helping pay for itself,

 

Not really. Not when it costs £5-6m per year.

clubs are winding back their academies to cat 4 status because they aren't worth it. We need to take a good hard look at our own academy and that includes taking a first team look at some of the products.

[Rambalin]

3 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Not really. Not when it costs £5-6m per year.

clubs are winding back their academies to cat 4 status because they aren't worth it. We need to take a good hard look at our own academy and that includes taking a first team look at some of the products.

I agree the amount we spend on the academy is high and it is no guarantee too produce players and I have no problem looking at a few in the first team.These are the players who will either make it or move on for the fees mentioned, the course I was on was before the place became so big.

In fact Huddlestone was still in the academy then he was used in training drill demo  remember the coaches saying he did not know how good he actually was.

Another thing they said was that Derby had to look at players released by the top club's at youth level because they could not attract the quality the premier club's could and just how much those players wanted to join.

[Wolfie]

12 minutes ago, RamNut said:

. We need to take a good hard look at our own academy and that includes taking a first team look at some of the products.

Which IMO is why most of them have been sent out on loan. Make or break for a lot of them?

[rynny]

1 hour ago, TobyWanKenobi said:

Apart from that time he did?

His longest run in the starting line up is 2. Is that really enough of a run? 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, rynny said:

His longest run in the starting line up is 2. Is that really enough of a run? 

He doesn't look better than (or as good as some of) the U23s currently. Why does he deserve a longer run?

[RamNut]

16 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Which IMO is why most of them have been sent out on loan. Make or break for a lot of them?

Which is ok for many.

the 21-22 year olds  really should be starting to break through if they are good enough.

we need to try them in the championship. Thats what we've been grooming them for. If the academy isn't producing given the stability and the level of investment then we might need to think again about running courses for all the age groups and cut our cloth accordingly.

[England Ram]

Average basic pay in the Championship was £324,250 per player per year last year. (According to The Mail Sport online) 

I know it’s not our money, but with the £7 million we are losing year on year, do we want to spend at least 1/3 million on a player that offers as little as JH has over the past 3 seasons? 

For me, I’m amazed and a little shocked he got w new contract. 

[Yani P]

we do seem to dish out random and slightly bizzare contracts. Didnt Bent get given (or had an option of) an extra year when he wasnt even playing?

[TobyWanKenobi]

1 hour ago, rynny said:

His longest run in the starting line up is 2. Is that really enough of a run? 

He played quite a few on the bounce for Wigan, and if you show little after 2 games for us, is it a good idea to keep playing him?

[Nuwtfly]

Quite torn with this one. Nothing about his performances merits a new contract, and at 22, it's mad to think that we still don't really know what Jamie Hanson's best position is.

On the other hand I like that we are securing a young player who has Derby in his blood. And that Osborn tackle still makes me smile.

Craig Ramage made a good point on the moan in when he suggested that we hadn't really seen what Hanson can really do because he's never been given a run in the team. Perhaps, in time, he'll prove me wrong.

At the moment, I'm not convinced.

[rynny]

10 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

He doesn't look better than (or as good as some of) the U23s currently. Why does he deserve a longer run?

Well, what has he done wrong that is so bad that he doesn't deserve a chance? What makes him so bad that he should be released for nothing, castaway onto the footballing scrap pile?

Marcus Tudgay wasn't very good for the reserves, or in a few appearances for the first team, he got a bad injury and was given a monthly contract, then all of a sudden he was the only fit striker at the club, got a run of games and had a good career for us. Always makes me think maybe youth players need a chance to show what they can do in the first team with a run of games.

Also performing better for the reserves/under 23s doesn't mean that they are going to perform better in the first team, Callum Ball, anyone?

[rynny]

8 hours ago, TobyWanKenobi said:

He played quite a few on the bounce for Wigan, and if you show little after 2 games for us, is it a good idea to keep playing him?

And how did he do for Wigan? How many of those performances did you see to know that he isn't good enough? 

Again a run of 2 games is not enough. As in my post above to RoyMac5, what has he done so wrong that says that he isn't good enough to be given a decent run?

[DRBee]

8 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

 

On the other hand I like that we are securing a young player who has Derby in his blood.

Realise your post was sceptical but want to pick out one bit - shown above. 

The sentiment expressed is what is costing us. We assume that it is 'good to have someone with Derby in their blood' but there has to be a quality test as well. When played in the first team we have seen Jaimie Hanson play well but also play inconsistently. this contract extension seems very dubious.

[RoyMac5]

19 minutes ago, rynny said:

Well, what has he done wrong that is so bad that he doesn't deserve a chance? What makes him so bad that he should be released for nothing, castaway onto the footballing scrap pile?.

Also performing better for the reserves/under 23s doesn't mean that they are going to perform better in the first team, Callum Ball, anyone?

Well his wages aren't free and he's not shown much, but I guess that's where we are for the 1st team.

[Day]

22 year old footballer, gets home having had his new contract announced by the club, shares the news himself on Instagram and.....

Now as a footballer on social media he like all other players will have to get used to this, as Billy Davies once or twice said, it is what it is. Doesn't make it right though does it. 

I keep reading though that as fans we are prepared to give our youth a chance, has Jamie had a chance? as Rynny pointed out earlier and I assume he's fact checked this but 2 games in a row is all he has had. 2 games, is that a chance in todays game?

Not every player to come out the academy will be on par with Will Hughes and Jeff Hendrick, if that is the level they will all be held to then we may as well give up now. 

Admittedly he is a little on the older side now for a player to breakthrough, but can't help but feel if we signed 22 year old Jamie Hanson from Man Utd or his name was Omar Mascarell from Real Madrid oooh la la, in the summer we would be talking about great potential and what a player we could have on our hands. Great to see Gary scouting younger players for a change and bringing in young talent. 

Problem Jamie has is similar to Mason Bennett, they feel like they have been around the club for years yet never broke through, so they must be "****", what we fail to realise is that Hanson made his debut at the end of the 14/15 season. The following summer we spent a lot of money on players that had this forum in awe of the quality at the time. No way was Jamie going to be able to fight into the first team, the manager at the time showed little interest in the younger players.

Promotion expectations have risen since, understandably so with the money spent and Jamie has had a lot of experienced players ahead of him to fight for a place in the team. The pathway to the first team has been blocked. 

I've said it before, the average tenure of a manager in the Championship was 0.95 years in 16/17, it's understandable why so many opt for experienced players over trying youth. The only way managers would be more willing is if they were given time, well, let's not even go there. 

Fail to go up this season, Jamie may get his chance with the new direction, he might be League One at best, Jack of all trades and master of none but wouldn't it be nice if he was given a fair chance before capping his career limit at a league below with a cheap throwaway insult to a player that has done little wrong to deserve that.

[rynny]

6 minutes ago, David said:

as Rynny pointed out earlier and I assume he's fact checked this but 2 games in a row is all he has had. 2 games, is that a chance in todays game?

I did indeed, and he has started 2 games in a row 6 times.

14/15

Norwich (1-1) and Boro (0-1)

15/16

Charlton (1-1) & Boro (1-1)

Brentford (3-1) & Blackburn (1-0)

Huddersfield (2-0) & QPR (0-2)

Forest (1-0) & Cardiff (1-2)

16/17

West Brom (2-1) & Leeds (0-1)

[RoyMac5]

Just now, rynny said:

I did indeed, and he has started 2 games in a row 6 times.

So that's lots of reasonable starts, why hasn't anyone persevered with him?

[Ghost of Clough]

27 minutes ago, David said:

The pathway to the first team has been blocked. 

I've said it before, the average tenure of a manager in the Championship was 0.95 years in 16/17, it's understandable why so many opt for experienced players over trying youth. 

 

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So that's lots of reasonable starts, why hasn't anyone persevered with him?

See the post above from David