Ram8 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Nugent .. ? better than Martin Jerome .. ? better than Martin Ledley .. ? better than Hughes Ledley .. ? better than Elsnick Wisdom .. ? better than Christie Yes, I know, put it like that and Rowett’s decisions and preferences re the above players are now looking even more ludicrous (not to mention costly re our chances of retaining ‘top two automatics’) than they did when he made his judgements on letting our better players go on loan, or be sold; and chose inferior (and less talented) players in their places ! So, come on then, anyone who thinks that Rowett’s decisions re the above players (and in particular letting Martin and Hughes go) hasn’t cost us our top two position .. Justify your views after Nugent, Jerome and Ledley’s totally ineffective contributions tonight; and tell me how you believe that having Martin and Hughes in our team would not have given us a win tonight .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 We wouldnt be near the top 2 with hughes in the team. For a start accomodating Hughes would mean no Vydra. I liked our style in 2014... but the fact is, after a serious injury or not... Hughes and some of the others were dire last season. Hughes wasnt let go.... a bid game in... and he wanted to go.... so let him.... thats the power players have these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Magnum ... ? better than Cornetto Stan ...? Better than Ollie chalk ....? Better than cheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, jagerbob said: We wouldnt be near the top 2 with hughes in the team. For a start accomodating Hughes would mean no Vydra. I liked our style in 2014... but the fact is, after a serious injury or not... Hughes and some of the others were dire last season. Hughes wasnt let go.... a bid game in... and he wanted to go.... so let him.... thats the power players have these days. Hughes has mainly been injured this season, but when I've seen him play for Watford they've gone with our 4-2-3-1 system and he's been their best player on the right-hand-side of the forward 3. If he were playing there for us we'd be far better. Sadly, Derby managers always played him too deep when his ability lends itself to being further up the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, Ram8 said: Nugent .. ? better than Martin Jerome .. ? better than Martin Ledley .. ? better than Hughes Ledley .. ? better than Elsnick Wisdom .. ? better than Christie Yes, I know, put it like that and Rowett’s decisions and preferences re the above players are now looking even more ludicrous (not to mention costly re our chances of retaining ‘top two automatics’) than they did when he made his judgements on letting our better players go on loan, or be sold; and chose inferior (and less talented) players in their places ! So, come on then, anyone who thinks that Rowett’s decisions re the above players (and in particular letting Martin and Hughes go) hasn’t cost us our top two position .. Justify your views after Nugent, Jerome and Ledley’s totally ineffective contributions tonight; and tell me how you believe that having Martin and Hughes in our team would not have given us a win tonight .. I must keep reminding myself, Martin never had any ineffective games. Silly me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Hughes, Ince, and Martin were some of my favourite Derby players, but Rowett was right to get rid of them. His reasoning is sound. We’re much more solid and resilient as a team, we’re more organised, and not reliant on one player to deliver the goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Hughes, Martin and Ince were without question better than Ledley, Nugent and Lawrence.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Think Ince and Hughes wanted to leave didn't they? And Russell. All Rowett can do is replace them. For the style of football he likes I think Hughes can be replaced by the likes of Ledley. In a possession side I think Hughes is irreplaceable at this level. But I don't see Hughes being more use to Rowett than Ledley. Rowett doesn't seek to carve high quality openings. He seems to fancy the chances of the percentages if you know what I mean. As a team we aren't patient with our creativity. We're more like a predator waiting for the opponent to leave an opening. Hughes strength is in opening doors for others. Ince he tried to replace. Imo he's got that wrong because Lawrence isn't even as good as Russell or a 2010 Cywka. He might come good but he's not a patch on Ince yet Russell and Martin... well we had Winnall when we let Martin leave. With Nugent, Jerome and Winnall he just couldn't give Martin the game time. I understand letting him go this time. With Russell I'm as disappointed as with Ince. As I've said I didn't rate him when he was applauded for running the ball out of play but neither did I hate him when he was still doing it 4 years later only unfortunately for us he became our hope of creativity. In my mind, even with all his faults, Russell was our best winger. Especially at getting from box to box quickly with the ball in our possession. He defended well and often through sheer persistence would create something we could benefit from. Have we replaced him? Palmer? I'm not sure and that could cost us. So some of it has perhaps been little mess ups by Rowett. Some has been out of his control. Has Rowett cost us top 2? Well the season isn't over. Last week Villa were to be feared. This week they lost to Fulham and drew with Preston. So there will be opportunity for us to get autos if we take care of our own results. And even if we do miss out on the top 2 it's not the end of the world. We will have the play offs. I've not gave up on top 2 yet so please don't say you give up on winning the play offs!! If we miss out completely? So be it. We know where we are weak. Where we lack depth and we allow Rowett another go. I'm not a big fan of Rowett but I don't want to see him suffer for the same thing McClaren did. You give people midtable and they accept it and look to the future. However you give them a taste of glory and they lose their **** and want nothing less. For a Derby manager it's probably safer to never try and never fail. Coming close seems to bring so much criticism. I mean tonight when we were on top at 0-0 the commentary team were saying "Hughes and Ince, good players but it just didn't work and you can guarantee the Derby will be closer to promotion this season". Well, no you can't for starters. Stupid thing to say. But there is a valid point in there. Even with the right players in the right system you suffer set backs. You line everything up just right and then football can just kick you in the nuts. Like a 90th minute goal at Wembley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Baird and Wisdom are better than Christie. Martin is better than Jerome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, cosmic said: Hughes, Ince, and Martin were some of my favourite Derby players, but Rowett was right to get rid of them. His reasoning is sound. We’re much more solid and resilient as a team, we’re more organised, and not reliant on one player to deliver the goods. absolutely stupid post easily refuted .. Vydra is the one player we rely on NOW and unlike when Martin was top scorer we have no others scoring good numbers of goals (Martin 20 Bryson 16 or similiar numbers depending on which competitions included ) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, DRBee said: absolutely stupid post easily refuted .. Vydra is the one player we rely on NOW and unlike when Martin was top scorer we have no others scoring good numbers of goals (Martin 20 Bryson 16 or similiar numbers depending on which competitions included ) ) How many seasons was that, mate? Seriously though, Bydra has flourished under this system but I think we could stick someone else in that role and get similar results. With 433 Martin we were relying on him starting moves and bringing others into play. With Ince he was the only one bringing a flash of inspiration out of nowhere. The way we’re set up now is more failsafe, imho. More cogs in the machine pulling their weight. That’s my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 how many games has jerome started, and someone is comparing him to martin? martin was very ordinary when he first arrived at derby in january. when salmon was still here. stupid argument. jerome has played many PLs games for different clubs.. martin = 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, MuespachRam said: Hughes, Martin and Ince were without question better than Ledley, Nugent and Lawrence.. so how come we are still in the championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyWanKenobi Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, TommyPowel said: so how come we are still in the championship? Because Hughes and Ince can't drag a team up themselves. They need good players and management around them, something which we were less than perfect in arranging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Wish some folk would sing a certain song from a Disney film...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo jones Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Are we comparing Ledley to Hughes as a DM as that is Ledley’s position and the one he was brought into play? if so Ledley is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Martin doesn’t fit our style of play,neither would Hughesy or Cyrus. Ince would be great but you can’t turn down 11 million or deny him his premier league move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfctheteamforme Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 6 hours ago, cosmic said: Hughes, Ince, and Martin were some of my favourite Derby players, but Rowett was right to get rid of them. His reasoning is sound. We’re much more solid and resilient as a team, we’re more organised, and not reliant on one player to deliver the goods. Sorry but this is nonsense. Rowett admitted himself we're too reliant on Vydra. When Once and Martin were here they both scored a decent amount of goals, as well as our other wingers and midfielders chipping in (depending on which season we're talking about). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Rowett had turned over the squad because he wanted the old guard out and his team in. The quality overall is noticably reduced in midfield and attack. i don't understand the references to Ledley though. he has been an improvement and cost us nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouRams Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Ledley has had one bad game coming back from injury, was class before that. Hughes and Elsnick are completely different players and wouldn’t fit the current system. Martin had his chances this season and looked as ineffective and uninterested as he’s ever looked. Christie was a poor defender and had one good game in 10 going forward. Rowetts been right in everything he’s done other than two maybe three things for me. Letting JR go without a replacement (even though I think we needed better than JR). Lawrence for 7m Leicester have had our pants down. And signing Jerome instead of a real quality inform striker. We’ve given second place up in January imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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