Sheffield Wednesday F.C. v Derby County F.C.

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, HantsRam said:

Sounds as though nugent is turning into a turbocharged savage. 

If Klopps gegenpressing style is what Gary rowett is attempting to achieve then that is about organised pressing in 2s and 3s.

One bloke running from opponent to opponent is not it. 

That’s a great point about Klopp which I’d not really thought about. I’d seen it as the front four in general not working hard enough but not really considered it in comparison. 

[PistoldPete2]

8 hours ago, Mistaram said:

Wonder if lack of competition is any reason for Nugent's slump 

Not really since we've signed jerome. I do rate nuge and jerome but age is catching up with them both. Hopefully between them they can jobshare and get us to the promised land. 

[DRBee]

11 hours ago, Hathersage Ram said:

After attending the Wednesday Match and contemplating my thoughts I think Rowett has entered an interesting phase of his management.

My thoughts are his team selection and actions for the Sheffield Wednesday match were ill thought out and more importantly he compounded each and every decision with another poor one.

6 changes in a team that has not lost since November and has hardly conceded a goal in the last dozen or so games was a error. 1st error.

He changed completely both flanks, full backs and "wide players" which was never going to be a sensible option. 2nd error

For a manager to be really successful he has to have the ability to change things during a match when the game is not going to plan. During the 1st half at Wednesday it was obvious the majority of our players were not up for the fight. It was bloody freezing and too many either just thought turning up would be enough or were pulling out of challenges or not putting much effort in.

COYR

 

Excellent post ( cut to save space)

 

The longer it goes from the match, the worse the 6 changes seem. I've talked to mates who support Premiership teams ( so no axe to grind about us)  and without exception they find it hard to understand.Having lost the game at Wednesday what does he do against Leeds, switch back? keep in the players who played badly?   How could the team , with  players who haven't played recently or haven't played together in recent games, be expected to do well. Rowett argued that all 6 he brought in were good players, but does he really think all our 1st team squad have the same skill and effectiveness? He tinkers with the team too much.

 

On Nugent's play, perhaps is is demoralised with Jerome and Winnall picked in front of him in recent matches - just think how good he was against Milwall, not that long ago.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, DRBee said:

Excellent post ( cut to save space)

 

The longer it goes from the match, the worse the 6 changes seem. I've talked to mates who support Premiership teams ( so no axe to grind about us)  and without exception they find it hard to understand.Having lost the game at Wednesday what does he do against Leeds, switch back? keep in the players who played badly?   How could the team , with  players who haven't played recently or haven't played together in recent games, be expected to do well. Rowett argued that all 6 he brought in were good players, but does he really think all our 1st team squad have the same skill and effectiveness? He tinkers with the team too much.

 

On Nugent's play, perhaps is is demoralised with Jerome and Winnall picked in front of him in recent matches - just think how good he was against Milwall, not that long ago.

I do think that gr has tinkered unnecessarily with Nugent up front....he was linking up very well with vydra for most of the first part of the season only supplemented by Martin and winnall when the need arose for a change but then for several games he has been completely left out in an effort to crowbar Jerome in (fairly unsuccessfully as Jerome has been isolated in the same way Martin was in this set up)

No doubt nuge is match rusty as an added benefit.

[archied]

2 hours ago, DRBee said:

Excellent post ( cut to save space)

 

The longer it goes from the match, the worse the 6 changes seem. I've talked to mates who support Premiership teams ( so no axe to grind about us)  and without exception they find it hard to understand.Having lost the game at Wednesday what does he do against Leeds, switch back? keep in the players who played badly?   How could the team , with  players who haven't played recently or haven't played together in recent games, be expected to do well. Rowett argued that all 6 he brought in were good players, but does he really think all our 1st team squad have the same skill and effectiveness? He tinkers with the team too much.

 

On Nugent's play, perhaps is is demoralised with Jerome and Winnall picked in front of him in recent matches - just think how good he was against Milwall, not that long ago.

Interesting post given that it’s only a matter of weeks since rowett was being slated for constantly naming unchanged sides and not using the squad enough ,now he is the manager who tinkers too much? Seems to me he just can’t win no matter what he does

[sunnyhill60]

2 hours ago, archied said:

Interesting post given that it’s only a matter of weeks since rowett was being slated for constantly naming unchanged sides and not using the squad enough ,now he is the manager who tinkers too much? Seems to me he just can’t win no matter what he does

Poor thing!

Managers are rightly judged on the outcomes of their decisions.

McClaren got it wrong when he made 8 changes in the Cup replay last season, but he at least had the excuse that the league was the priority.

6 changes on Tuesday was ridiculous. I usually think Rowett's post-match interviews are realistic and accurate but his attempts to brush away questions about the effects of the number of changes will have convinced no one.

[archied]

5 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

Poor thing!

Managers are rightly judged on the outcomes of their decisions.

McClaren got it wrong when he made 8 changes in the Cup replay last season, but he at least had the excuse that the league was the priority.

6 changes on Tuesday was ridiculous. I usually think Rowett's post-match interviews are realistic and accurate but his attempts to brush away questions about the effects of the number of changes will have convinced no one.

Nope not poor thing , he’s paid well to do a job he probably really loves ,,, it’s some of the fans that make me giggle ,, too safe and never changes the side , changes too much and is the tinkerer ,over the long run so far his subs have had impact but if they don’t they were too late or the wrong ones ,, it’s all just hindsight moaning ,,, six changes ? The six coming in are easily on a level with those they replaced , if we win it’s because they are Fresh ,if we don’t they are rusty , don’t make changes and we win it’s a settled team if we don’t they are leggy and needed a rest,, all these players are working in training together ,they know the system and work it every day in training with each other , I watched the game and the truth is although we are not Barcelona we could very easily have won the game and nobody could have moaned about the result , let’s be right in the main we have not been Barcelona all season but have got the job done ,like villa and Cardiff ,only wolves with champions league players have run away with it while looking very good ,the holy grail / target is promotion for the money that brings for the time ther(even if only 1 season) and the parachute payments that follow that allows clubs to build at the next level of financial levels ,

this post is not aimed at those who have and express well thought out balanced opinions but rather the ones in whose eyes rowett,Mel and the club can do no right even when what they do is exactly pretty much what they were calling for and slating them for not doing ,

theres lots of opinions on here I don’t particularly agree with but am able to respect and understand how they are formed but there are those that are just negative negative negative no matter what we do 

[DRBee]

8 hours ago, archied said:

Interesting post given that it’s only a matter of weeks since rowett was being slated for constantly naming unchanged sides and not using the squad enough ,now he is the manager who tinkers too much? Seems to me he just can’t win no matter what he does

Not by me and I have posted about this before.I would hope for a mostly fixed team with a couple of unforced changes to suit opposition some times.. Not sure how people asking him to use the squad more are relevant to my point  - they disagree with me , do you ? Its not like  Rowett is choosing teams on the basis of what he reads on here. He's judged by performances and results that come from HIS decisions. Making 6 changes was a SHOCKING decision, but there are some on here who think it was fine to do this. Its as bad as Phil Brown keeping his Hull players on pitch over half time and just shows he's lost the plot.

[archied]

31 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Not by me and I have posted about this before.I would hope for a mostly fixed team with a couple of unforced changes to suit opposition some times.. Not sure how people asking him to use the squad more are relevant to my point  - they disagree with me , do you ? Its not like  Rowett is choosing teams on the basis of what he reads on here. He's judged by performances and results that come from HIS decisions. Making 6 changes was a SHOCKING decision, but there are some on here who think it was fine to do this. Its as bad as Phil Brown keeping his Hull players on pitch over half time and just shows he's lost the plot.

Not a go at you just a general post following some posts on the subject and I also think 6 changes was a bit extreme 

my worry is that rowett is starting to be influenced a bit by fans and media ,, I’m seeing him starting to acknowledge fans impatience ,booing and getting on players backs when they make mistakes ,he is getting defensive in interviews regards playing style and the always there undercurrent of mac1 was the second coming and he is supposed to match that whilst also going further and producing promotion from a gruelling division

[RoyMac5]

37 minutes ago, archied said:

Not a go at you just a general post following some posts on the subject and I also think 6 changes was a bit extreme 

my worry is that rowett is starting to be influenced a bit by fans and media...

If he's struggling now then it ain't gonna be pretty when the 'Prem-based' media get at him?!

[Harrowram]

Six changes seemed excessive given derby don'y have a game on Saturday.

[Wolfie]

59 minutes ago, Harrowram said:

Six changes seemed excessive given derby don'y have a game on Saturday.

But the changes were made looking back at the poor second half against Norwich and I don't think anyone would have argued against that.

Having said that, IMO at least four out of the 6 changes were correct and only GR & staff know how fit the players are.

It doesn't change the fact that the team we put out there should have been enough to beat Sheff Wed reserves and we did have enough chances to win the game. We're just not as clinical with them as we have been up to now.

[KCG]

Probably many of the same people criticising Rowett for the changes on Tues had been calling on Sat for the very same changes!

[Harrowram]

I thought Ledley should replace Thorne as the game on Saturday passed Thorne.  Forsyth hasn't been anything special all season and I can't see what Wisdom did wrong.

[Mistaram]

11 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

Poor thing!

Managers are rightly judged on the outcomes of their decisions.

McClaren got it wrong when he made 8 changes in the Cup replay last season, but he at least had the excuse that the league was the priority.

6 changes on Tuesday was ridiculous. I usually think Rowett's post-match interviews are realistic and accurate but his attempts to brush away questions about the effects of the number of changes will have convinced no one.

Got to agree with you I went to the match and there was certainly disappointment and feeling of this could really go wrong among the fans around me But for Rowett  to say after the six changes were not why we lost was very bizarre I'm like you I think think his after match interviews are usually very good Hope he's not turning into Clough Jnr and blame everyone and everything other than himself 

[Seaside Sam]

On 14/02/2018 at 15:14, RoyMac5 said:

That's why good goalscorers cost so much. Weimann isn't one.

And that's the problem not enough players contributing on the goalscoring front,been like that for the last 4/5 years now ie Martin for a couple of seasons Ince last season Vydra this we need a lot more from our midfielders Bryson was the only midfielder in recent times to produce a decent return

[S8TY]

Who can say if we had kept the same team that played Norwich we wouldn't have lost ??? No one knows ...I thought we looked lethargic second half against Norwich so only 3 days later I thought changes would happen and they did ...apart from not playing Lawrence instead of Anya or Johnson I thought it looked a good side although I don't see BJ as a left sided mid ....

Baird was unlucky to lose his place a few games ago as he had done nothing to deserve dropping so swapping him for wisdom did not seem a disastrous choice to me and Fozzy is probably more suited to away games than home at the mo .

Thorne needed a break and Nugent for Jerome seemed logical so the changes didn't seem too bad to me tbh

if we were changing players for less capable players I would get the reasons for criticsm from fans but the changes still left us looking strong for me...but we lost  although carved out some chances....it happens ...it's only 1 defeat so not the end of the world ...if we take it there is a 17 game season starting from now and we're 3rd I would've taken that at the start of the season so let's try and be positive because it's all to play for ....

my only worry and I've said this before is I don't like our style of play and letting the opposition have the ball so much ...that does worry me along with the fact teams that play 3 at the back seem successful against us ...

why don't we try 3 at the back in certain games ??wisdom Keogh Davies ??? might be worth a try I reckon as some have already said on here .....all we can do as fans is get right behind this team and make it loud !!!! 

 

[Mistaram]

6 hours ago, archied said:

Nope not poor thing , he’s paid well to do a job he probably really loves ,,, it’s some of the fans that make me giggle ,, too safe and never changes the side , changes too much and is the tinkerer ,over the long run so far his subs have had impact but if they don’t they were too late or the wrong ones ,, it’s all just hindsight moaning ,,, six changes ? The six coming in are easily on a level with those they replaced , if we win it’s because they are Fresh ,if we don’t they are rusty , don’t make changes and we win it’s a settled team if we don’t they are leggy and needed a rest,, all these players are working in training together ,they know the system and work it every day in training with each other , I watched the game and the truth is although we are not Barcelona we could very easily have won the game and nobody could have moaned about the result , let’s be right in the main we have not been Barcelona all season but have got the job done ,like villa and Cardiff ,only wolves with champions league players have run away with it while looking very good ,the holy grail / target is promotion for the money that brings for the time ther(even if only 1 season) and the parachute payments that follow that allows clubs to build at the next level of financial levels ,

this post is not aimed at those who have and express well thought out balanced opinions but rather the ones in whose eyes rowett,Mel and the club can do no right even when what they do is exactly pretty much what they were calling for and slating them for not doing ,

theres lots of opinions on here I don’t particularly agree with but am able to respect and understand how they are formed but there are those that are just negative negative negative no matter what we do 

Archied  I agree with all you have said except a couple of points Why were Ollson and Wisdom dropped they did nothing wrong against Norwich and afraid if you thought we could have won that match you never went to the same match as me First half we were shocking lucky to only be one down Second half they scored straight away and shut up shop We huffed and puffed but were never going to get anything from the game 

[Spanish]

wrong page

[sunnyhill60]

4 hours ago, Mistaram said:

Archied  I agree with all you have said except a couple of points Why were Ollson and Wisdom dropped they did nothing wrong against Norwich and afraid if you thought we could have won that match you never went to the same match as me First half we were shocking lucky to only be one down Second half they scored straight away and shut up shop We huffed and puffed but were never going to get anything from the game 

Not to mention Anya, who linked well with Vydra on his two starts. There was zero chance Johnson would do that.