eddie Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 So much hatred - colour me surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 13 minutes ago, Lambchop said: The queen is not the country. This is a completely false form of patriotism imo. It is a lousy national anthem, more a personal anthem in my opinion, but the sentiment is the same, turning his back on it just shows him as an immature attention seeking young man, which to me is a recipe for being a disruptive influence. I would prefer that we didn't sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 All we needed was a nice quiet transfer window and no upsetting of the apple cart and now we have lost a team starter in Russell and we are being linked with one of the most difficult potential signings to give backing to, I also don’t think he is any good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, eddie said: So much hatred - colour me surprised. awful isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 15 minutes ago, Lambchop said: The queen is not the country. This is a completely false form of patriotism imo. I don't think you read my post properly. I literally said 'I'm not asking him to stand there hand on heart and belt out god save the queen', implying I'm not expecting him to do these things. I do expect him not to openly disrespect the country by being the only player on the field to actively turn his back on the flag and the anthem. If it was in reverse and an Englishman was to turn his back on the very anti-English Irish national anthem, he'd be crucified before kickoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Would we pay >£7m? i bet we would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, lrm14 said: I do expect him not to openly disrespect the country by being the only player on the field to actively turn his back on the flag and the anthem. So you’re associating the flag and anthem with respect for the country. There are many British people who do not feel in the slightest represented by the monarchy, the national anthem or the flag. Those are certainly not the things I feel proud of my country for. A long tradition of democracy and tolerance, maybe, but not that pompous nonsense 31 minutes ago, philmycock said: If he hate’s Britain so much why live and work here, why pay so much tax that pays for the UK armed forces that he hates so much? He’s a hypocrite, and that’s why he’s baggage. Who says he ‘hates’ Britain? As you point out, he chooses to live and work and pay taxes here. I simply don’t see this supposed hatred and disrespect in a simple gesture of non-allegiance, and neither is it there in any of the statements he has made, as far as I’m aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, Lambchop said: Who says he ‘hates’ Britain? As you point out, he chooses to live and work and pay taxes here. I simply don’t see this supposed hatred and disrespect in a simple gesture of non-allegiance, and neither is it there in any of the statements he has made, as far as I’m aware. Come on.....you're not daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 12 minutes ago, Lambchop said: So you’re associating the flag and anthem with respect for the country. There are many British people who do not feel in the slightest represented by the monarchy, the national anthem or the flag. Those are certainly not the things I feel proud of my country for. A long tradition of democracy and tolerance, maybe, but not that pompous nonsense Who says he ‘hates’ Britain? As you point out, he chooses to live and work and pay taxes here. I simply don’t see this supposed hatred and disrespect in a simple gesture of non-allegiance, and neither is it there in any of the statements he has made, as far as I’m aware. He can’t bare the sight of our flag, he turns away from it, our flag is repugnant to him, we are his enemy, he lives in enemy territory, he hates the UK. Yet it’s his home. Jihadists are hated for the same beliefs. Baggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 15 minutes ago, Lambchop said: So you’re associating the flag and anthem with respect for the country. There are many British people who do not feel in the slightest represented by the monarchy, the national anthem or the flag. Those are certainly not the things I feel proud of my country for. A long tradition of democracy and tolerance, maybe, but not that pompous nonsense I think the thing is that with freedom comes responsibility. By all means don't join in with flag or poppy saluting but don't turn your back either. No need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: I think the thing is that with freedom comes responsibility. By all means don't join in with flag or poppy saluting but don't turn your back either. No need. What actual harm does it do? The offense is only there in the minds of those who choose to see it. The British have an appalling history of colonialism and imperialism. I’m not proud of it in the slightest; I am ashamed of much of our past and I include our history in Ireland in that. The reasons he’s given seem perfectly understandable to me and his gesture just makes me think he’s got the courage of his convictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 32 minutes ago, Lambchop said: So you’re associating the flag and anthem with respect for the country. There are many British people who do not feel in the slightest represented by the monarchy, the national anthem or the flag. Those are certainly not the things I feel proud of my country for. A long tradition of democracy and tolerance, maybe, but not that pompous nonsense Who says he ‘hates’ Britain? As you point out, he chooses to live and work and pay taxes here. I simply don’t see this supposed hatred and disrespect in a simple gesture of non-allegiance, and neither is it there in any of the statements he has made, as far as I’m aware. The flag and to a lesser degree the anthem represent this country, whether you agree with it or not. That's why people turn to burning flags to make political statements and why he turned his back on it. You keep bringing the monarchy into it and I'm not entirely sure why. Just because you don't feel represented by the flag (for whatever arbitrary reason) doesn't mean you're not represented by it. Presuming you're a British citizen, it represents you. I'm honestly amazed how you find it so hard to grasp this concept but then calling it all 'pompous nonsense' just makes you come across as self-loathing. Again, turning your back isn't a 'simple gesture of non-allegiance', it's an act of disrespect. You'd get stick in almost every country for doing what he did, and rightfully so. I'll reiterate, he explained the situation regarding the poppey very well and made the very fair point that it also represents the soliders who fell in Ireland, which he cannot support. The Union Jack does not however just represent the military, it represents the country, which is why its flown at every embassy we possess or used to represent us at the Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I don't see the problem. After all, we have a government propped up by terrorist sympathisers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 minute ago, eddie said: I don't see the problem. After all, we have a government propped up by terrorist sympathisers. Do you want a player who is a terroristist sympathiser? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, lrm14 said: I'm honestly amazed how you find it so hard to grasp this concept but then calling it all 'pompous nonsense' just makes you come across as self-loathing. I loathe myself because I’m not a jingoist or a sycophant? What utter nonsense. You may feel represented by a flag, I and plenty of others certainly do not. I love this land, I love the sea and I love the people here. I am proud of the struggles of ordinary people to win justice and equality for all. I am proud of us when we stick up for the weak and the vulnerable, and when we include people who are different from us. I am not proud of our imperialism, our warmongering or our arrogance and that is what the flag wavers represent to me. James McClean can wipe his arse on it as far as I’m concerned, he’s still welcome here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyWanKenobi Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Good luck to the lad. It must be hard to have beliefs that you get slated for in stadiums full of thousands of crazy patriot people. I haven't worn a poppy or sung a national anthem since I was forced to in school 20 years ago, yet I'd be a coward and cave in and put one on if put in the same position. Credit to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramslad1992 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Everybody has their beliefs and are entitled to them... my personal belief is to wear a poppy with pride and sing the national anthem with pride, the thing that really bugs me about him is the way he's gone about it, plenty of people don't wear a poppy and I'm fine with it but he just grates me. He's up there with Joey Barton for me and I really really really hate Joey bloody Barton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamikaze Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 He should don a WHITE POPPY like all of us, which commerates casualties of all wars, A commitment to peace and; a refusal to celebrate or glamourise war itself with the added meaning of a hope for the end of all wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcanboy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Oops...... My mistake, thought this was a footy forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Sparkle said: Worth noting that the British regiments who subdued the uprising were Irish ones and also worth noting that the uprising was in conjunction with lots of help from Germany who we were at war with and we had to move regiments away from the front line to deal with it This really gave me an awful feeling in my stomach and I so hope it’s not true, please bring back Nick Blackman it feels much better. Not really true. Initially yes, but the Sherwood Foresters and South Staffordshire regiments (among others) were quickly drafted in, mostly reservists. The Sherwood Foresters were the ones that suffered the heaviest losses having being ambushed by snipers at Mount Street Bridge, and the South Staffs were those that gained notoriety for bayoneting numerous civilians on North King Street. The guns were German Mauser rifles yes, having been smuggled into Ireland by Erskine Childers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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