The FA adopt the Rooney Rule for all future appointments

[Highgate]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

I have more data. 17% of Premier League players were BAME 20 years ago. It is now 35%. It's been on a sharp increase since 30 years a go.

British BAME hold 4.1% of the top coaching jobs of last year. And it's rising. Funny that.

It was done with planning. It is voluntary. Wolves have declined to do it twice, but now have a BAME manager. Funny that.

Thanks for the condescending well done. I like compliments.

Not intended to be condescending, genuine appreciation for doing some research.

But let me get this straight, you are telling me that the situation regarding BAME candidates getting coaching roles is improving of late, and you are also telling me that Championship and lower league clubs have been operating their own version of the Rooney Rule recently?  So are you saying it looks like the Rooney Rule works as hoped?

Tell me the truth, have i been doing such an appalling job in arguing for the Rooney Rule that you, out of pity presumably, have decided to step in and do the job for me?

[R@M]

6 hours ago, StivePesley said:

I'm not sure anyone read them . It's very easy to see the negatives of enforcing a Rooney Rule in British football -  but they both gave good evidence of the potential benefits, however small those may be

So for me the crux is, as @Highgate says - should we not give this minor alteration a go and lets see if it can do some good. Or should we just do nothing and wait for casual racism to naturally die out on its own somehow?

For the record, I'm far from convinced that this is a stellar idea in British football, but for the 5 pages of people complaining about it, I'm not seeing any evidence that it will make the situation worse for anyone seeking employment as a manager/coach. In which case it feels like the level of discontent amongst fans is unwarranted. If it doesn't harm you personally in anyway, why let it bother you?

Also - the clubs all voted to go ahead with it, so it's their choice really. It's not being forced on anyone.

I’m not sure that it is entirely voluntary, could you imagine the headlines if any club disagreed?

i think the main problem is the discrimination aspect. The best person should get the job. There are already laws in place to stop discrimination (that exclude positive discrimination) how long will it be before a manager states they have been for 10 interviews and not got a job due to their race?

the Rooney rule was invented because the NFL had approx 6% African American coaches compared to a national population of approx 13.5%. The UK has a population of African descent of approx 3%. With 22 out of 480 coaches, the proportional representation is about right. 

I also feel that this cheapens the sentiment that kick it out etc have and would rather they concentrated on factual discrimination.

[R@M]

 

1 hour ago, Highgate said:

Ahh...you did get some data. Well done

Again the population as a whole is not really the relevant figure.

Are you saying that all Championship, League 1 and League 2 teams deliberately interview BAME candidates for coaching roles, a sort of voluntary Rooney Rule, or it just happened without any planning?

But the population aspect is relevant. You do not have to have played football to be a manager. That then opens the jobs up to anyone that has the drive and mental capacity to complete coaching badges, Non league managers are often pe teachers and such. 

There are currently 3 managers in the premier league who did not play. Was recently 4. 

[RamsFan10]

The lack of BAME managers is quite blatant when you think about it. Never really agreed politically with 'affirmative action' schemes (or things equating to affirmative action) though. The right step in my opinion is to assess why there's a lack of BAME managers and do something about it at grassroots level, rather than introduce a rule that appears to seek to combat the issue but in fact just wastes everyones time with a token black guy being interviewed, doing very little. 

Perhaps the more pressing issue in wider football is with Gay footballers and managers. Isn't it 10% ish blokes that are gay? incredible that there are next to none who feel they can be open regarding their sexuality yet continue their jobs. 

[alexxxxx]

i live in india and when i switched on star sports last night, saw David James as a manager at Kerala FC. Now I'm sure he's probably being paid handsomely there but I wonder whether he needed to go out there to get his management career started.....

[GboroRam]

I don't see why it's a big deal frankly.

It's an interview, not a job offer. An opportunity. As long as the best person for the job gets it, it's not affecting anything.

If more BAME candidates means more BAME appointees, presumably the best person wasn't getting the job - and positive discrimination will have addressed it.

It's a shame people feel the need for this so there's clearly a perception of unfairness. Of course non BAME people wouldn't be as aware of it though. Easy to say there's no problem when it doesn't affect you.

[Norman]

8 hours ago, Highgate said:

Not intended to be condescending, genuine appreciation for doing some research.

But let me get this straight, you are telling me that the situation regarding BAME candidates getting coaching roles is improving of late, and you are also telling me that Championship and lower league clubs have been operating their own version of the Rooney Rule recently?  So are you saying it looks like the Rooney Rule works as hoped?

Tell me the truth, have i been doing such an appalling job in arguing for the Rooney Rule that you, out of pity presumably, have decided to step in and do the job for me?

Not improving enough though, is it? So it doesn't look like it is working. There must be something else pther than oppurtunity. And the evidence does not point to racism.

I'm happy to change my mind, if proven wrong.

Most of the posters on this thread speak ********. There has been no fact checking, research, or any kind of evidence given to back up some disparaging claims.

People giving big opinions and sweeping statements on establishments, the old boys network, posters on this forum and society im general etc, and it is ********. Just an opinion based on nothing. Again. 

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, Norman said:

Not improving enough though, is it? So it doesn't look like it is working. There must be something else pther than oppurtunity. And the evidence does not point to racism.

I'm happy to change my mind, if proven wrong.

Most of the posters on this thread speak ********. There has been no fact checking, research, or any kind of evidence given to back up some disparaging claims.

People giving big opinions and sweeping statements on establishments, the old boys network, posters on this forum and society im general etc, and it is ********. Just an opinion based on nothing. Again. 

I want names. 

[Gaspode]

I'm getting concerned after reading some of the percentages quoted in this thread - it appears that the number of BAME players in the game is completely out of proportion with the general population - clubs need to urgently address this and reduce the number of BAME kids their academies take on. White kids obviously aren't given a fair crack at becoming professional players so in the spirit of equality, we need an inverse Rooney rule to correct that - after all, it's all about quotas isn't it? 

[Stive Pesley]

9 hours ago, R@M said:

i think the main problem is the discrimination aspect. The best person should get the job. There are already laws in place to stop discrimination (that exclude positive discrimination) how long will it be before a manager states they have been for 10 interviews and not got a job due to their race?

I don't think that's the problem at all. The BAME coaches that exist don't seem to have a problem getting jobs. No one has complained about not being selected for a job based on race. There just aren't that many of them.

It's supposed to be about grass-roots, removing barriers, helping under-represented groups believe that they can have the aspiration to succeed.

Like I say, I'm far from convinced that it's the right answer, but it doesn't feel like trying it causes any harm to anyone, so why not?

As an aside I was wondering what the representation of BAME players agents is? I seem to recall at least a couple of black ex-Derby players became agents. All the money of being a coach but none of the stress! And someone said that black players were sometimes stereotyped as "less intelligent"??

As a further aside - are there any black referees in the FL?

[McRainy]

2 hours ago, Norman said:

Just an opinion based on nothing

You don’t believe institutional racism exists?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/08/50-anniversary-race-relations-act-uk-prejudice-racism

[StringerBell]

9 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

You don’t believe institutional racism exists?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/08/50-anniversary-race-relations-act-uk-prejudice-racism

I do. There’s that Rooney rule for starters.

[McRainy]

Again, stats from last year. As I was trying to explain to Alpha, the problem isn’t primarily individual actions of prejudice, it’s systematic disadvantage across all areas of life. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-police-racism-racial-inequality-bme-black-stop-and-search-prisons-graphs-statistics-revealed-a7197066.html

[McRainy]

17 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

I do. There’s that Rooney rule for starters.

What’s your solution to the systematic disadvantages faced by BME people in this country then?

Apart from just saying, but what about white people?

[eddie]

What I cannot understand is why certain people on this forum are making all kinds of bleating noises about this matter, when clearly the FA and the EFL have perceived that there is a problem within their own organisations and are seeking ways to redress the issue of under-representation of BAME coaches within the game. It's not as if they are coming in cold - it has already been trialed at academy level, deemed to have been a success and is now being rolled out at all levels up to Championship.

 

[G STAR RAM]

52 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

You don’t believe institutional racism exists?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/08/50-anniversary-race-relations-act-uk-prejudice-racism

Sorry but how can I take articles like this seriously? 

Asian women are more likely to commit suicide?

Black men are disproportionately represented in prisons?

???

[eddie]

23 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

What’s your solution to the systematic disadvantages faced by BME people in this country then?

Apart from just saying, but what about white people?

First-world privileged but not privileged enough problems.

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, eddie said:

What I cannot understand is why certain people on this forum are making all kinds of bleating noises about this matter, when clearly the FA and the EFL have perceived that there is a problem within their own organisations and are seeking ways to redress the issue of under-representation of BAME coaches within the game. It's not as if they are coming in cold - it has already been trialed at academy level, deemed to have been a success and is now being rolled out at all levels up to Championship.

So if the FA have concluded that racism is a problem within it's own organisation why are they not naming, shaming and removing the racists from their positions?

[maxjam]

7 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

What’s your solution to the systematic disadvantages faced by BME people in this country then?

Apart from just saying, but what about white people?

Education. 

Its not going to be a quick fix but it will be built on solid foundations - my kids already have a different world view to me based on what they learn at school and watch on tv. As time goes by this will steadily increase as the philistines die out - which to be fair is what has happened since the 1960s or whenever and will imo accelerate as fewer and fewer hardcore racists remain.

Some of the stats you quote can be manipulated, university numbers for example - children from poor white families are also massively under represented. 

The simple fact is that life isn't fair whether you're white, black, whatever and some people will always come from privileged backgrounds and have a better start and therefore greater opportunities in life. Unless you are going to tear down hundreds of years of British history thats not gonna happen overnight and unfortunately for BAME folk in the UK that have in all probability only been here for a few generations its going to take time to establish a foothold. 

I'm not saying that racism isn't a problem, it obviously is, but with better education and time the problem has been getting better and will continue to get better.  The underlying problem I would much prefer to see tackled is to give everyone an equal chance. Take this article from Sky News today as an example - which imo legally shouldn't be allowed to happen;

https://news.sky.com/story/school-bosses-criticised-for-scheme-that-separates-rich-from-poor-11202933

 

[eddie]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So if the FA have concluded that racism is a problem within it's own organisation why are they not naming, shaming and removing the racists from their positions?

The FA is under the control of the Premier League - and the Premier League have chosen to look in the other direction on this occasion. Deflection, pointing the finger elsewhere - a bit like the usual suspects in this thread are doing whenever there is a problem that might make them momentarily uncomfortable, before they decide that it's not their problem, therefore there is no problem - apart from the solution which they perceive just might limit their existing advantages. Now THAT's a problem.