The FA adopt the Rooney Rule for all future appointments

[alexxxxx]

3 hours ago, StringerBell said:

 

3 hours ago, StringerBell said:

Yeah I think there’s some proper daft names, mostly black American ones tbh.

do you think you prejudge based on someone's name? or is it something you look through?

[StringerBell]

24 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

do you think you prejudge based on someone's name? or is it something you look through?

I probably would have preconceived ideas running through my mind, sames true of posh sounding names like Rupert. Names do have connotations associated with them. Whenever I hear Chantelle I think of the Jeremy Kyle show for instance.

I suppose you’d have to try and look past that but some of those African American names are so intentionally bizarre I’m not sure some people’s parents helped them. I think I said before it probably works like an inverse positive action. If two people are equally qualified and one is called Kevin while the other is called D’melsius III then it might be likely that Kev will get the job.

[Alph]

3 hours ago, Lambchop said:

It’s a vicious circle. Agreed, poverty and class keep down white and black alike, but black people are are more likely to be there to begin with and have more barriers keeping them from doing well. 

You criticise the statistics, then counter them with anecdotal evidence. All these oppressions are interelated and affect different groups in different ways. 

Are minority groups more likely to be there to begin with because of immigration etc.

How many people of African or Carribean or even Eastern European  (Albania, Bosnia, Croatia, Bulgaria) defendants or background are coming into the UK with the wealth to pay for the best education and houses in the nicest areas? 

As an Albanian coming into western Europe, into the UK, how many are going into poor areas. High crime rates. 

I'm not saying stop the immigrants they're all criminals. I'm wondering if it's again wealth blocking their path. 

Crime in poor areas due to the lack of opportunities to the poor. Not their ethnicity? 

It's a tough rat race for many of them. And it could take generations for some of these families to get off the bottom. 

[McRainy]

5 hours ago, Alpha said:

Are minority groups more likely to be there to begin with because of immigration etc.

Well, yes, and the whole history of colonialism, slavery and white supremacism, which wasn’t really questioned until the 1960s. 

[G STAR RAM]

8 hours ago, Lambchop said:

Well, yes, and the whole history of colonialism, slavery and white supremacism, which wasn’t really questioned until the 1960s. 

Isn't the reason they tend to live in poorer areas due to the fact that they come into the country with next to nothing? 

 

[McRainy]

56 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Isn't the reason they tend to live in poorer areas due to the fact that they come into the country with next to nothing? 

 

...and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th generations? What is it that disproportionately keeps them there?

[maxjam]

10 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

...and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th generations? What is it that disproportionately keeps them there?

Probably the same thing that prevents the majority of children from poor white families achieving much in life.

If you life in a poorer area, the schools aren't going to be as good, jobs are probably low paid and difficult to come by and crime/drug use is typically higher.  Its difficult to escape areas like that unless you are really gifted, lucky or both.

As we're a football forum its a bit like throwing Derby into the Premiership - its your first time in a new division, you don't have the structure or support to flourish and you get relegated with 11 points.  If you make it past your first couple of seasons however you can begin to pull your self out of the mire and become more comfortable like a Burnley, but until many, many seasons have gone by and you've moved into your new stadium and the area you live in has been through a regeneration you'll never attract the top players.

If we eradicated racism entirely the vast majority of BAME families would still be in low wage areas/jobs because of circumstance. 

[G STAR RAM]

28 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

...and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th generations? What is it that disproportionately keeps them there?

Their culture?

Their families tend to stay together in one place rather than spreading their wings.

You can point to poor areas in Derby  (such as Normanton) and say ethnic minorities are disproprtionately represented, but would you ever point to nicer areas (such as Burton Road, Blagreaves Lane, Littleover ando Heatherton Village) and say the same thing? Doubt it.

[McRainy]

9 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Probably the same thing that prevents the majority of children from poor white families achieving much in life.

Black kids do consistently worse. That’s not really in dispute, so I’m not sure why people are so keen to downplay it. Yes, class/poverty affects everyone regardless of colour, but black kids are consistently less likely to be favoured by the education system or gain employment, and more likely to be targeted by the police. 

Again, I'm not sure why I have to keep saying this. If you’re not clear on the facts, look it up. It’s almost as if people have some sort of vested interest in denying that there’s a problem.

You may not think the Rooney rule in football is the right or most effective way to tackle it, but claiming there is no white privilege in this country is wilful ignorance at best. 

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Black kids do consistently worse. That’s not really in dispute, so I’m not sure why people are so keen to downplay it. Yes, class/poverty affects everyone regardless of colour, but black kids are consistently less likely to be favoured by the education system or gain employment, and more likely to be targeted by the police. 

Again, I'm not sure why I have to keep saying this. If you’re not clear on the facts, look it up. It’s almost as if people have some sort of vested interest in denying that there’s a problem.

You may not think the Rooney rule in football is the right or most effective way to tackle it, but claiming there is no white privilege in this country is wilful ignorance at best. 

Black people are more likely to be targeted by police?

In another post someone said black people are disproprtionately represented in prison, does it not therefore follow suit that black people are more likely to be targeted by police as they are commtting more crimes?

[McRainy]

20 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Black people are more likely to be targeted by police?

In another post someone said black people are disproprtionately represented in prison, does it not therefore follow suit that black people are more likely to be targeted by police as they are commtting more crimes?

“The claim that policing practice in the UK is institutionally racist was widely accepted after the Macpherson Report at the end of last century. The report included the idea that there may be widespread ‘unwitting prejudice' that lead to racially discriminatory practice.”

https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/publications/cjm/article/implicit-racial-bias-and-anatomy-institutional-racism

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/publications/cjm/article/implicit-racial-bias-and-anatomy-institutional-racism

What some people class as racism, others would class as logic though.

If black people are committing higher percentage of crimes then surely logic would say that black people are more likely to be targeted by the police.

And I'm assuming that the basic assumption here is that all police officers are white?

 

[StringerBell]

27 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Black people are more likely to be targeted by police?

In another post someone said black people are disproprtionately represented in prison, does it not therefore follow suit that black people are more likely to be targeted by police as they are commtting more crimes?

And poor, white boys do the worst at school which runs counter to what she’s saying. And unlike the Macpherson report this isn’t 20 years old.

 

[GboroRam]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

What some people class as racism, others would class as logic though.

If black people are committing higher percentage of crimes then surely logic would say that black people are more likely to be targeted by the police.

And I'm assuming that the basic assumption here is that all police officers are white?

 

Either more black people are criminals or the police are institutionally racist. It's one or the other. And there's plenty of data to suggest there is inherent institutional racism within policing.

[McRainy]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

If black people are committing higher percentage of crimes then surely logic would say that black people are more likely to be targeted by the police.

If black people are more likely to be targeted by the police then logic would say they’re more likely to be represented in the crime statistics. 

I can’t believe I’m actually having this conversation in 2018. The Macpherson Report was in 1999. Look it up, and stop talking out of your arse. 

[McRainy]

5 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

And poor, white boys do the worst at school which runs counter to what she’s saying. And unlike the Macpherson report this isn’t 20 years old.

 

It’s not class OR racism, it’s both. 

The Macpherson Report was about policing, not education. 

[StringerBell]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Probably the same thing that prevents the majority of children from poor white families achieving much in life.

If you life in a poorer area, the schools aren't going to be as good, jobs are probably low paid and difficult to come by and crime/drug use is typically higher.  Its difficult to escape areas like that unless you are really gifted, lucky or both.

As we're a football forum its a bit like throwing Derby into the Premiership - its your first time in a new division, you don't have the structure or support to flourish and you get relegated with 11 points.  If you make it past your first couple of seasons however you can begin to pull your self out of the mire and become more comfortable like a Burnley, but until many, many seasons have gone by and you've moved into your new stadium and the area you live in has been through a regeneration you'll never attract the top players.

If we eradicated racism entirely the vast majority of BAME families would still be in low wage areas/jobs because of circumstance. 

Did people expect the aristocrats to say “We’ve ended slavery, here’s the keys to my mansion”.

A free society will always show deviating levels between demographics. An authoratartian society is required to ensure equality. A bit of central planning, if you like. And they wonder why they get labelled ‘cultural Marxists.’

Further to that, much of the same people advocate for multiculturalism. Well, it’s no good advocating for multiculturalism in one instance and then saying ‘well why are certain cultures predisposed to certain job roles than others? It’s not equal.’

The fact is if most people traced their family tree they might find they’ve stayed in similar economic backgrounds as their ancestors. Why should ethnic minorities rather than all impoverished people get special consideration to better enable them pull themselves out of poverty?

In fact I’m apparently descended from some London MP and my grandad went and ******* up so I suppose I’ve gone down a few rungs.

[StringerBell]

8 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

It’s not class OR racism, it’s both. 

The Macpherson Report was about policing, not education. 

And you were talking about both.

It’s about class and racism then? Is that why working class whites are doing worse in school?

[Alph]

Doesn't this go back to the crime rate in poor areas? 

I mean how many arrests are made on gangs and the like? London has plenty of gangs made up of minorities. 

 

[StringerBell]

14 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

If black people are more likely to be targeted by the police then logic would say they’re more likely to be represented in the crime statistics. 

I can’t believe I’m actually having this conversation in 2018. The Macpherson Report was in 1999. Look it up, and stop talking out of your arse. 

The ‘It’s the current year!’ meme came out in 2015. I can’t believe people are still doing it in 2018.