Rising tide of performance?

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, archied said:

Just a thought ,,, could it be the players not doing what they are sent out to do sometimes ? Perhaps they get out there and don't feel they can do what they are sent out to do or they feel the opposition don't let them do what they are sent out to do ,,, I only ask because surely by the same measure rowett sent them out to do what they did after half time? Are we saying rowett sends them out there with instruction after half time to attack ,get a goal then go back into our shell? 

Seems to me a lot of it may be rowett trying to stamp out the naivety that haunted us for many years ? Chasing games too much at the wrong times and getting thumped because of it ? 

 

Just a thought,but doesn't a good manager,manage those issues?

Otherwise,what's the point of a manager?

And if he can't manage that,why's he managing?

 

[Duracell]

2 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Just a thought,but doesn't a good manager,manage those issues?

Otherwise,what's the point of a manager?

And if he can't manage that,why's he managing?

 

Not sure I agree with archied's diagnosis, but managing an issue doesn't necessarily mean fixing an issue instantly overnight.

[Duracell]

1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

I have seen the line "to a side sitting 17th" a fair bit. The fact they are 17th is irrelevant. They were in the playoffs last season and have a good squad and manager. We don't have a divine right to turn up and win 0-3 just because they are 17th.

Ridiculous how many people are bringing that fact up, but I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. Even in November, you'd expect a game away from home to a team in 17th to be difficult, but a game away from home against the team that's top to be even harder.

[archied]

4 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Just a thought,but doesn't a good manager,manage those issues?

Otherwise,what's the point of a manager?

And if he can't manage that,why's he managing?

 

You've gone somewhere else as usual

is rowett sending out the team that were poor in the first half?

is he sending out the team that were very decent at the start of the second half?

or come to that the team that regressed after the very decent spell in the second half ?

if he gets the team to the point where they are playing as well as they are in spells ( because in spells we have looked good ?)more consistently over 90 minutes is that good enough for you ? Or is it just that rowett has upset some so much by letting Will and ince go and not making martin his automatic starter and expecting Thorne to be busting a gut in the under 23 s to get up to first team fitness levels that no matter what he does he will never measure up to your standards? 

Sorry mate all I'm hearing from yourself and some others is unbalanced negatives negative negative, is that really the case ? Are there really no positives to rowett tenure so far? I suspect not for some 

 

[Pearl Ram]

48 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

And that's what I don't get about yours and Ellafella's views Pearl - you've clearly been around a while and seen all the comings and goings over a long period of time; you've seen football change, transfer windows and the way players have to be managed change; you've seen agents and Sky and BT and inordinate amounts of money come into the game; you've seen a new stadium; criminals in charge of us and decent people too. And yet you have no patience.

I started watching us in 1963.  I remember Tim Ward going and the team finishing 17th in 1966/67 after many years of achieving not very much.  I also remember Brian and Peter coming and getting 11 players out in their first year (when there were no restrictions on when transfers could happen; no agents to guide players; no players seeing their contracts out; no foreign players to add to the pool of players available to the top clubs; when players did what they were told).  I also remember their first full season in 1967/68 whilst this change was happening.  We finished 18th and I remember well then the 'Clough out' voices that were raised - the guy's too young, too opinionated, he's changed too much, the defence doesn't defend, Kevin Hector is isolated and not getting the service, the midfield's too slow.

It hadn't changed too much after 16 games in your first season either (presumably 1968/69).  Our record then was won 8, drawn 5, lost 3. Not too different to now.  And look what happened that season.

This is not to argue that GR is the genius that Brian was.  There have been few that could match him in my lifetime. It's not even to argue that we will go up this season. But it is to say that even geniuses need time, and even geniuses benefit from support.

Good post Ilkley. I get no pleasure from what I’ve posted since yesterday’s game, I just go on my gut reaction, I posted on here in July or August I was quite prepared to write the season off and see what Rowett could make of what he’d been dealt.

Yesterday’s first half performance wouldn’t have got a reaction out of me if it came in the first few weeks of his tenure but we’re six months down the line so I feel I have to question his methods. 

I think he’s a bluffer (to put it politely) I hate the way he talks i.e.”we need to move some bodies in and out” the famous “in the building” and other sound bites I’ve heard from him, it all points to a man who thinks highly of himself with little to back up that opinion in my experience.

I believe there are half a dozen managers in this league who would have this squad playing better and would have won us more points than Rowett in his time with us. 

Sorry. 

[stoneyram]

7 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said:

Good post Ilkley. I get no pleasure from what I’ve posted since yesterday’s game, I just go on my gut reaction, I posted on here in July or August I was quite prepared to write the season off and see what Rowett could make of what he’d been dealt.

Yesterday’s first half performance wouldn’t have got a reaction out of me if it came in the first few weeks of his tenure but we’re six months down the line so I feel I have to question his methods. 

I think he’s a bluffer (to put it politely) I hate the way he talks i.e.”we need to move some bodies in and out” the famous “in the building” and other sound bites I’ve heard from him, it all points to a man who thinks highly of himself with little to back up that opinion in my experience.

I believe there are half a dozen managers in this league who would have this squad playing better and would have won us more points than Rowett in his time with us. 

Sorry. 

Here Here 

He still does not know this best eleven players 

and this style of play bores the fans ,to which they part with good money to watch 

we have all gone from being little and we all want the same thing (Mr cox days please)

as we are at the minute we will come unstuck 

Lets move forward and not backwards like our passing(we are so easy to play against)

im too sorry 

[archied]

29 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said:

Good post Ilkley. I get no pleasure from what I’ve posted since yesterday’s game, I just go on my gut reaction, I posted on here in July or August I was quite prepared to write the season off and see what Rowett could make of what he’d been dealt.

Yesterday’s first half performance wouldn’t have got a reaction out of me if it came in the first few weeks of his tenure but we’re six months down the line so I feel I have to question his methods. 

I think he’s a bluffer (to put it politely) I hate the way he talks i.e.”we need to move some bodies in and out” the famous “in the building” and other sound bites I’ve heard from him, it all points to a man who thinks highly of himself with little to back up that opinion in my experience.

I believe there are half a dozen managers in this league who would have this squad playing better and would have won us more points than Rowett in his time with us. 

Sorry. 

To be fair it's a little much to call him a bluffer with little to backmit up ,,, Brian clough was once a bluffer with little to back it up? 

He is a manager and as such if he does not show confidence in his abilities and methods then he has not the slightest chance of managing players?

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, archied said:

You've gone somewhere else as usual

is rowett sending out the team that were poor in the first half?

is he sending out the team that were very decent at the start of the second half?

or come to that the team that regressed after the very decent spell in the second half ?

if he gets the team to the point where they are playing as well as they are in spells ( because in spells we have looked good ?)more consistently over 90 minutes is that good enough for you ? Or is it just that rowett has upset some so much by letting Will and ince go and not making martin his automatic starter and expecting Thorne to be busting a gut in the under 23 s to get up to first team fitness levels that no matter what he does he will never measure up to your standards? 

Sorry mate all I'm hearing from yourself and some others is unbalanced negatives negative negative, is that really the case ? Are there really no positives to rowett tenure so far? I suspect not for some 

 

Very,very few.....I would have said defensively but after reading I can't honestly say that....the changing rooms look very nice though.

And playing better for ten minutes isn't really acceptable is it....might be an idea to educate and motivate the players in what they need to do PRIOR to the match starting....again,that's the managers job.

If he needs to b******* everyone at half time every match to get a brief reaction the there is something very wrong with the game plan and coaching.

I see your Martin issues have surfaced again despite precisely noone else mentioning him at all.

You need help and the first stage is admitting it to yourself.

[ilkleyram]

1 hour ago, Pearl Ram said:

Good post Ilkley. I get no pleasure from what I’ve posted since yesterday’s game, I just go on my gut reaction, I posted on here in July or August I was quite prepared to write the season off and see what Rowett could make of what he’d been dealt.

Yesterday’s first half performance wouldn’t have got a reaction out of me if it came in the first few weeks of his tenure but we’re six months down the line so I feel I have to question his methods. 

I think he’s a bluffer (to put it politely) I hate the way he talks i.e.”we need to move some bodies in and out” the famous “in the building” and other sound bites I’ve heard from him, it all points to a man who thinks highly of himself with little to back up that opinion in my experience.

I believe there are half a dozen managers in this league who would have this squad playing better and would have won us more points than Rowett in his time with us. 

Sorry. 

Thank you Pearl.

And I wrote sometime back that the only certainty was that at some point GR would move on or be sacked because that's what happens to the vast majority of football managers, so the only question is when. In my view the bare minimum of time he should get is this season.  Much better would be next season too, given that we are dealing with human beings rather than robots. 

You may or may not be right about the abilities of another 6 managers in the league being better.  We'll never know because they weren't picked so it's fairly pointless speculating.  They may have been picked and done worse, but then that's speculating.

We've had several seasons now of inconsistent performances under different managers - good for one half, not the next; good for a period but not the whole game; good for a couple of matches, not the next - so to expect him to turn it round in 6 months (when it took the likes of Brian over a year in easier times) is, in my view, unrealistic. We didn't win the league in 1968/69 until the last 15 games (from the end of January 1969) when we won 13, lost 1 and drew 1. Until then we hadn't won more than three in a row.

And if you hate the way in which he talks then you should think back to the mockery that Brian had to take about his accent and mannerisms, but at least someone's talking to GR and he's listening because he rarely uses those expressions now, I guess quite deliberately. He needs time and support.

[Mr Tibbs]

Why do people keep saying “what he’s been dealt” as if the squad GR inherited along with a 10+ million transfer kitty is an awful deal for him? One of the luckiest managers in the league. 

 

[rynny]

6 hours ago, archied said:

Perhaps your correct on this ,,, perhaps we would be far better to go there and look really good , take the lead then crumble and turn into bumbling wrecks trying desperately to hold on but losing to late goals that every one of us in the crowd knows  that sure as eggs is eggs are  going to be conceded , I also look back with fondness on some of the football we played briefly under mac1 with the bulk of clough s team but I don't use rose tinted specs and pretend it lasted longer than it did and thathere was not some real disappointing dire stuff in there too

From when Mac came in to when he was sacked we scored the most goals and acheived the most points in the whole country.

[archied]

23 minutes ago, rynny said:

From when Mac came in to when he was sacked we scored the most goals and acheived the most points in the whole country.

Cant be denied that the period under mac1 was spot on ,right place right time and all that ,,, that said we never went up and things went tits up in the end and the further we got from clough s team the more lost we seemed to get and the whole Newcastle saga was a sad affair ,, it's gone and I'm sure in hindsight there's a fair bit people would handle differently , 

you cant live in the past and we have to rebuild now and go again 

[Mistaram]

3 hours ago, archied said:

You've gone somewhere else as usual

is rowett sending out the team that were poor in the first half?

is he sending out the team that were very decent at the start of the second half?

or come to that the team that regressed after the very decent spell in the second half ?

if he gets the team to the point where they are playing as well as they are in spells ( because in spells we have looked good ?)more consistently over 90 minutes is that good enough for you ? Or is it just that rowett has upset some so much by letting Will and ince go and not making martin his automatic starter and expecting Thorne to be busting a gut in the under 23 s to get up to first team fitness levels that no matter what he does he will never measure up to your standards? 

Sorry mate all I'm hearing from yourself and some others is unbalanced negatives negative negative, is that really the case ? Are there really no positives to rowett tenure so far? I suspect not for some 

 

Great post some will never get over Ince and Hughes going what they forget is they both asked to go as for Martin he could have said no I'm not going to Fulham on loan I will stay and fight for my place But he couldn't wrap Pearson round his little finger like he did Mclaren

[Highgate]

3 hours ago, archied said:

You've gone somewhere else as usual

is rowett sending out the team that were poor in the first half?

is he sending out the team that were very decent at the start of the second half?

or come to that the team that regressed after the very decent spell in the second half ?

if he gets the team to the point where they are playing as well as they are in spells ( because in spells we have looked good ?)more consistently over 90 minutes is that good enough for you ? Or is it just that rowett has upset some so much by letting Will and ince go and not making martin his automatic starter and expecting Thorne to be busting a gut in the under 23 s to get up to first team fitness levels that no matter what he does he will never measure up to your standards? 

Sorry mate all I'm hearing from yourself and some others is unbalanced negatives negative negative, is that really the case ? Are there really no positives to rowett tenure so far? I suspect not for some

That's a pretty big if. You could be accused of unbalanced positives there yourself. Every team plays better in some spells rather than others.

Of course you are right, if Rowett does manage to get us to play consistently at our best for 90 minutes, then things will be looking up, but then you could say that of any manager at any club. Will performances improve or not?  I hope so, but who knows at this stage.

Given that yesterday's performance was generally poor, apart for 15 mins at the start of the second half, and given that our possession generally consisted of sideways passing followed by knocking it 'down the channels', what annoyed me was how generally upbeat Rowett was afterwards. There is something of a PR man about Rowett in his interviews that is really starting to grate,

Still, he needs to be given until the end of the season anyway before we start judging him too harshly. Let's see how this season goes, before we form firm opinions on Rowett.

 

[cannable]

41 minutes ago, Mistaram said:

Great post some will never get over Ince and Hughes going what they forget is they both asked to go as for Martin he could have said no I'm not going to Fulham on loan I will stay and fight for my place But he couldn't wrap Pearson round his little finger like he did Mclaren

Those in the game will tell you that Nigel Pearson’s actually a massive pussy

[PodgeyRam]

27 minutes ago, cannable said:

Those in the game will tell you that Nigel Pearson’s actually a massive pussy

Any man who has to say "I can take care of my self" after strangling a player clearly has self esteem issues.

[RamNut]

6 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

And that's what I don't get about yours and Ellafella's views Pearl - you've clearly been around a while and seen all the comings and goings over a long period of time; you've seen football change, transfer windows and the way players have to be managed change; you've seen agents and Sky and BT and inordinate amounts of money come into the game; you've seen a new stadium; criminals in charge of us and decent people too. And yet you have no patience.

I started watching us in 1963.  I remember Tim Ward going and the team finishing 17th in 1966/67 after many years of achieving not very much.  I also remember Brian and Peter coming and getting 11 players out in their first year (when there were no restrictions on when transfers could happen; no agents to guide players; no players seeing their contracts out; no foreign players to add to the pool of players available to the top clubs; when players did what they were told).  I also remember their first full season in 1967/68 whilst this change was happening.  We finished 18th and I remember well then the 'Clough out' voices that were raised - the guy's too young, too opinionated, he's changed too much, the defence doesn't defend, Kevin Hector is isolated and not getting the service, the midfield's too slow.

It hadn't changed too much after 16 games in your first season either (presumably 1968/69).  Our record then was won 8, drawn 5, lost 3. Not too different to now.  And look what happened that season.

This is not to argue that GR is the genius that Brian was.  There have been few that could match him in my lifetime. It's not even to argue that we will go up this season. But it is to say that even geniuses need time, and even geniuses benefit from support.

I am happy to bet you a £100 it won't hppen this time.

[archied]

2 hours ago, Highgate said:

That's a pretty big if. You could be accused of unbalanced positives there yourself. Every team plays better in some spells rather than others.

Of course you are right, if Rowett does manage to get us to play consistently at our best for 90 minutes, then things will be looking up, but then you could say that of any manager at any club. Will performances improve or not?  I hope so, but who knows at this stage.

Given that yesterday's performance was generally poor, apart for 15 mins at the start of the second half, and given that our possession generally consisted of sideways passing followed by knocking it 'down the channels', what annoyed me was how generally upbeat Rowett was afterwards. There is something of a PR man about Rowett in his interviews that is really starting to grate,

Still, he needs to be given until the end of the season anyway before we start judging him too harshly. Let's see how this season goes, before we form firm opinions on Rowett.

 

Fair comment I would say,,, I'm not trying to be over positive because if I'm honest I've not seen enough yet to form a proper opinion ,it just drives me nuts seeing total unbalanced negative stuff that's often posted here with no credit for any bits that perhaps he has improved for us because they only want to see the negative ,,, 

[DRBee]

9 hours ago, curtains said:

Ellafella you are doing you’re best to get Mel to sack Gary. 

Why ! 

There is another option - for Rowett to learn and change!

Your stance, where it is only the result that matters is for idiots. You may as well go to the match with a paper bag over  your head and wait for the result. It's not about getting promotion this season its about producing football that is entertaining. 15 minutes of good stuff per match won't do.

[ilkleyram]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

I am happy to bet you a £100 it won't hppen this time.

what won't happen?