First few minutes

[FindernRam]

The more I watch or listen to (don't do away games!) the Rams a pattern is emerging. The first five or so minutes define our play for the whole game.

Take yesterday, we started really ponderously went a goal down and never recovered, OK perked up a bit at the end but not good enough! This is not an isolated case, too many games we seem to have this lethargy about us at the start. Allows the opposition to get at us.

Any clever sports science people want to comment. Is it the warm up, the fact we have an ageing team, poor pre-match diet, bad motivational talk, low oxygen in the changing room?

Got to be something!

And yes I know we scored in 24 seconds against Forest, but that makes my point, we can do if we want to. I don't think its complacency or entitlement, may be fear of mistakes. Or lazy.

[Ellafella]

14 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

The more I watch or listen to (don't do away games!) the Rams a pattern is emerging. The first five or so minutes define our play for the whole game.

Take yesterday, we started really ponderously went a goal down and never recovered, OK perked up a bit at the end but not good enough! This is not an isolated case, too many games we seem to have this lethargy about us at the start. Allows the opposition to get at us.

Any clever sports science people want to comment. Is it the warm up, the fact we have an ageing team, poor pre-match diet, bad motivational talk, low oxygen in the changing room?

Got to be something!

And yes I know we scored in 24 seconds against Forest, but that makes my point, we can do if we want to. I don't think its complacency or entitlement, may be fear of mistakes. Or lazy.

Check out Yerkes-Dodson law. It's sports psychology and relationship between arousal and performance. Yesterday we were complacent but also confused by our tactics to sit back. We sat back, let Reading take control and quel surprise, they scored 2 goals.  

Pre-match arousal levels are in turn determined by the message given just prior to the game starting in the dressing-room. 

[jono]

Really good point ? It was odd. We lost the ball early after kick off. Couldn't get it back . Then It came to Tom. He took a nasty whack. Ball ping between them. We never got a smiff ... then the Keogh problem. You just knew within 5 mins that like an engine we were running rough. Interesting! 

[RamNut]

There was a change of kick off routine. 

Normally we play it back to huddlestone to launch a long ball towards forsyth.

yesterday tom was moved and bradley johnson was put in prime position.

ooh whats this? Something different.

ball back to johno, hoof, concede possession.

identical tactic but Long range passing isn't one of bradley's strengths.

god knows what all that was about.

is Huddlestone carrying an injury too?

 

 

[Alph]

6 minutes ago, RamNut said:

There was a change 

identical tactic but Long range passing isn't one of bradley's strengths.

 

 

I'm not sure what his strength is? Heading? His great games are few and far between. The crunching tackles and bullying he does are seen much less than his awful passing. 

Somehow I don't think he's a bad player. But I'm not sure why. Probably because he's busy. Involved a lot.

But if another fan said "We're buying Johnson off you. What's his best position and what type of player is he" what would you say?

A defensive left sided attacking central midfielder who likes kicking stuff and pushing stuff?

 

[angieram]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

The more I watch or listen to (don't do away games!) the Rams a pattern is emerging. The first five or so minutes define our play for the whole game.

Leeds United.

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, Ellafella said:

 

Pre-match arousal levels are in turn determined by the massage given just prior to the game starting in the dressing-room. 

This is why that Emma whatsit could be a good signing for us 

[Dimmu]

4 hours ago, Ellafella said:

Check out Yerkes-Dodson law. It's sports psychology and relationship between arousal and performance. Yesterday we were complacent but also confused by our tactics to sit back. We sat back, let Reading take control and quel surprise, they scored 2 goals.  

Pre-match arousal levels are in turn determined by the message given just prior to the game starting in the dressing-room. 

Didn't expect to see Yerkes-Dodson at this forum, Ellafella! Well done.

It's bit old theory, I'd suggest getting familiar with Yuri Hanin's IZOF which is an updated version of it.

[Tamworthram]

5 hours ago, FindernRam said:

The more I watch or listen to (don't do away games!) the Rams a pattern is emerging. The first five or so minutes define our play for the whole game.

Take yesterday, we started really ponderously went a goal down and never recovered, OK perked up a bit at the end but not good enough! This is not an isolated case, too many games we seem to have this lethargy about us at the start. Allows the opposition to get at us.

Any clever sports science people want to comment. Is it the warm up, the fact we have an ageing team, poor pre-match diet, bad motivational talk, low oxygen in the changing room?

Got to be something!

And yes I know we scored in 24 seconds against Forest, but that makes my point, we can do if we want to. I don't think its complacency or entitlement, may be fear of mistakes. Or lazy.

Yes but yesterday wasn't exactly typical. I think most teams would find it difficult to recover from conceding two early goals and losing your captain/key defender after just 8 minutes.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

When you get a good win away to Leeds and then sit back at home to a poor reading side id say that's sods law.

[europia]

How about a bit of simple psychology of human nature .... that a number of our players looked at Readings league position and thought, ah yeh another 3 easy points at home. Just a theory. 

[Ramant62]

Or a number of our players looked at Reading and thought this is one of our bogie teams, and we're not going to beat them. If it is psychological, it doesn't bode well for our game in hand match versus Ipswich who I believe haven't lost at Derby since 2006 ? 

[FindernRam]

16 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Yes but yesterday wasn't exactly typical. I think most teams would find it difficult to recover from conceding two early goals and losing your captain/key defender after just 8 minutes.

It was typical of some games! We started so slow and let Reading get 2 goals. Recovery or lack of is irrelevant, it was those first few minutes that defined our game. If Keogh wasn't fit to play he should not have started. This  start of game malaise is too regular with Derby and its not good enough.

[Comrade 86]

14 hours ago, europia said:

How about a bit of simple psychology of human nature .... that a number of our players looked at Readings league position and thought, ah yeh another 3 easy points at home. Just a theory. 

More likely a fan's perception than one the players held. Most folk on here had already decided we'd beat Reading before a ball was kicked but while we sat in the dizzy heights of 5th place have those fans forgotten where we were a few weeks back? 

Football is a volatile and highly unpredictable sport. Only those who enjoy a massive gulf in ability over the reset of their league deliver strong performances week in week out, Think Barca, Real, City, Bayern. This is not only because of their starting 11 but their overall depth and quality of squad. We have a strong first 11 but a few niggles have shawn us of the spine for the team - Vydra, Keogh, Thorne and co and without these players, we can't utilise a  system that suitsthe remaining personnel.

The last factor is conditioning, Pressing high and fast over 3 games against playoff rivals in a week was going to be tough from a physiological standpoint, With VYds, Keogh and perhaps Thorne in to shore things up I'd expect a very different performance against Birmingham and one that might solidify our position in the top 5 or 6. Martin is showing signs of  revival and Lawrence just needs a confidence boost. Brad has shown he can do well i his favoured slot and hopefully the January window (only Rowetts's second) will provide further opps to solidify a system and roster capable of a top 5 slot or better. I'm still reserving judgment at this point but I see no crisis nor any need for kneejerk reactions to what was simply a lethargic and poor day at the office, Thi stuff happens and it's how we respond to the knocks that will define our season.

COYR

[rynny]

23 hours ago, FindernRam said:

The more I watch or listen to (don't do away games!) the Rams a pattern is emerging. The first five or so minutes define our play for the whole game.

Take yesterday, we started really ponderously went a goal down and never recovered, OK perked up a bit at the end but not good enough! This is not an isolated case, too many games we seem to have this lethargy about us at the start. Allows the opposition to get at us.

Any clever sports science people want to comment. Is it the warm up, the fact we have an ageing team, poor pre-match diet, bad motivational talk, low oxygen in the changing room?

Got to be something!

And yes I know we scored in 24 seconds against Forest, but that makes my point, we can do if we want to. I don't think its complacency or entitlement, may be fear of mistakes. Or lazy.

No team has scored more goals than us in the first 15 minutes of a game (6), we have conceded 4 times in the first 15 minutes which 5 teams have conceded more and another 4 match. No team has seen more goals in the first 15 minutes of their matches than us (10), Sheff Wed is 2nd with 9 (F2-A7) Ipswich, Forest (F2-A6) and Sunderland (F3-A5) are next with 8.

[europia]

8 hours ago, 86 points said:

More likely a fan's perception than one the players held. Most folk on here had already decided we'd beat Reading before a ball was kicked but while we sat in the dizzy heights of 5th place have those fans forgotten where we were a few weeks back? 

Well I certainly wasn't one of them. I didn't expect an easy home win, but nor did I expect them to brush us aside !

[Tamworthram]

9 hours ago, FindernRam said:

It was typical of some games! We started so slow and let Reading get 2 goals. Recovery or lack of is irrelevant, it was those first few minutes that defined our game. If Keogh wasn't fit to play he should not have started. This  start of game malaise is too regular with Derby and its not good enough.

No it wasn't typical. When was the last time we had to substitute a key player within the first 10 minutes?

[FindernRam]

There's some misreading of what I said!

We do not always start slow, indeed often we start brightly. How we start does define the whole game. Start well we play well for most of the game and tend to win. start slow we are on the back foot for the whole 90.

We started appallingly on Saturday before we lost Keogh and the whole team was equally bad, did they know he was injured and all have a group hysterical reaction to play badly from the off.

Slightly off topic saw a player who (cant remember who, threw the paper away!) has been poor but now is playing with more energy, says the difference is due to ditching Pasta on Friday night and having chips instead. Someone call up Zanfish right away (other chippies are available).

[Carnero]

11 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Slightly off topic saw a player who (cant remember who, threw the paper away!) has been poor but now is playing with more energy, says the difference is due to ditching Pasta on Friday night and having chips instead. Someone call up Zanfish right away (other chippies are available).

Think it was Gary Madine making the switch from porridge (chortle) to pasta and now to chips.

[Rich84]

They won toss and made us change ends...... said then I don't like it when we kick to south stand 1st half! We were always doomed from that point onward