cheron85 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, Mr Giggles said: Completely agree with this, but is it worth changing the players we have up top when they are already linking very well? I actually don't think Nugent has been all that effective the last couple of games - The ball isn't sticking up front - Either because the midfield aren't finding him in the channels or because he's not effective at holding it up against big defenders The big change when Martin has been coming on is that the attacking players are getting 2-3 extra seconds when Martin holds the ball up to get up in support - That extra power for me makes up for the slight lack of mobility - And to be fair he even timed some nice runs in behind on Saturday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Martin will get his chance but at this point both vydra and nugent are doing a job for the team as well as getting themselves on the scoresheet ,,, martin just now is doing a job for the team but not getting on the scoresheet ( when he s come on or started in cup ) ,, it's that old debate of do you judge strikers on goals or what they bring to the team ,,,, We are getting results ,vydra and nugent are in the chair, martin has to dislodge them if he wants the chair ,,, it's no good banging on that rowett isn't up to the job because he can't see martin is our best player ??????? Competition for places in the team is the most healthy it's been in a long long time ,, whatever you think of rowett that is one area he has put right at the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, archied said: Martin will get his chance but at this point both vydra and nugent are doing a job for the team as well as getting themselves on the scoresheet ,,, martin just now is doing a job for the team but not getting on the scoresheet ( when he s come on or started in cup ) ,, it's that old debate of do you judge strikers on goals or what they bring to the team ,,,, We are getting results ,vydra and nugent are in the chair, martin has to dislodge them if he wants the chair ,,, it's no good banging on that rowett isn't up to the job because he can't see martin is our best player ??????? Competition for places in the team is the most healthy it's been in a long long time ,, whatever you think of rowett that is one area he has put right at the club REPLY....... And how does Martin get that chance? We lost heavily a few games ago and yet rowett didn't give him a chance then? He is clearly making a big impression each time he comes on(normally far too late). Personally think that rowett is far too conservative and cautious in his choices and says one thing whilst doing the other. Must be pretty demoralising for CM when he isn't considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 5 hours ago, cheron85 said: Southampton went down to League 1, played open expansive football - Did the same in the championship AND the Premier League And got relegated in doing so. We've had discussions on other threads (and maybe this one earlier) about playing style - The majority of teams who've gone up and survived have been teams who played open, expansive football - The ones who play defensively like Hull and Boro seem to be back in our league. 5 hours ago, cheron85 said: Southampton got relegated in doing so. Hull tried and also failed. I honestly cant recollect a side that has played this style of football and stayed up.If you have then financial clout to buy players with the class to play that style of football well that’s an entirely different scenario. Maybe us one day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Pearson said: Southampton got relegated in doing so. Hull tried and also failed. I honestly cant recollect a side that has played this style of football and stayed up.If you have then financial clout to buy players with the class to play that style of football well that’s an entirely different scenario. Maybe us one day Bournemouth, Swansea, Watford, Leicester, Southampton (under Adkins) all went up playing attacking football and have stayed up. Hull switched to that style half way through the season and they nearly stayed up as a result - I seem to remember them being well adrift at the bottom before hand. Newcastle and Huddersfield at the moment are both going well playing that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 12 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: How does he get his chance?? Pretty much the same way any squad player or youngster gets his chance ,,, by perhaps putting away some of the chances he has had when on as sub , by coming on and being a game changer ,by being so impressive in training that he forces his way into the starting line up ,, it's very clear you are a martin fan and that's fine ( I think he is a decent player and will play his part this season ) but just because rowett doesn't see him as automatic starter above vydra whose banging them in and nugent who is scoring and doing a job too having done it at every club he has been at doesn't make rowett some kind of blind bumbling fool who's not up to the job . rowetts job is to build a team that gets results in this division not to shoehorn fan favs into the first eleven , he appears to me to be making the beginning s of that if that means that martin or any other player has to blow us away in his sub appearances to get into the side then so be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 speaks reasonably well but has made some strange decisions. He seems to value brute force over skill; counter attacking over possession; defence over attack. strengths - he seems to have eliminated our vulnerability at corners, and we look reasonably solid. weakness - not really very imaginative with recruitment; poor quality of football. Doing well enough to survive. Not doing well enough to inspire great loyalty. carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 57 minutes ago, RamNut said: speaks reasonably well but has made some strange decisions. He seems to value brute force over skill; counter attacking over possession; defence over attack. strengths - he seems to have eliminated our vulnerability at corners, and we look reasonably solid. weakness - not really very imaginative with recruitment; poor quality of football. Doing well enough to survive. Not doing well enough to inspire great loyalty. carry on. A good assessment. Trouble is, cautious managers like Rowett are rarely successful in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, RamNut said: speaks reasonably well but has made some strange decisions. He seems to value brute force over skill; counter attacking over possession; defence over attack. strengths - he seems to have eliminated our vulnerability at corners, and we look reasonably solid. weakness - not really very imaginative with recruitment; poor quality of football. Doing well enough to survive. Not doing well enough to inspire great loyalty. carry on. Rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 17 hours ago, Ram8 said: I'm afraid we don't have to look any further than one issue to decide if the manager is up to the job, and can become a successful manager of Derby County .. his absolute, total lack of appreciation that the best player on the books is worthy of a start every week ! What is it that convinces him that Nugent is a better option than Martin ? Yes, Nugent and Vydra have combined well on a couple of occasions in scoring a goal, but with Chris Martin in the side there are always (if he is given the ball) chances being created for other players via his skill and awareness in tight situations, and he is an established 20 goal a season man too (with the right system in place behind him) .. i despair that he is incapable of seeing this, and fear that it will cost us dear before the end of the season .. So just one decision that is different to yours means he is not up to the job? Maybe he values Nugents work rate over Martins Maybe he thinks Nugent and Vydra link up better Maybe Martin is showing nothing in training to warrant a start You say he is an established 20 goals a season man, when was the last time he did that? Should we also be looking to sign Ross McCormack in January and start him instead of Nugent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, DRBee said: A good assessment. Trouble is, cautious managers like Rowett are rarely successful in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, DRBee said: A good assessment. Trouble is, cautious managers like Rowett are rarely successful in the end. Can equally be argued that cavalier managers are rarely successful in the end. The ones who do make it are the right balance of bravery and tactical nous for the situation they are in, combined with an ability to generate belief and loyalty from the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 hours ago, RamNut said: speaks reasonably well but has made some strange decisions. He seems to value brute force over skill; counter attacking over possession; defence over attack. strengths - he seems to have eliminated our vulnerability at corners, and we look reasonably solid. weakness - not really very imaginative with recruitment; poor quality of football. Doing well enough to survive. Not doing well enough to inspire great loyalty. carry on. Spot on unfortunately... Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 12 hours ago, Pearson said: Southampton got relegated in doing so. Hull tried and also failed. I honestly cant recollect a side that has played this style of football and stayed up.If you have then financial clout to buy players with the class to play that style of football well that’s an entirely different scenario. Maybe us one day You mean the Southampton that are currently in 10th place in the Premier League? That finished 8th (I think) last season? Interesting... Plus all of the below 9 hours ago, PodgeyRam said: Bournemouth, Swansea, Watford, Leicester, Southampton (under Adkins) all went up playing attacking football and have stayed up. Hull switched to that style half way through the season and they nearly stayed up as a result - I seem to remember them being well adrift at the bottom before hand. Newcastle and Huddersfield at the moment are both going well playing that way. I'd go as far as suggesting there is only one manager capable of sustaining dour, defensive football on a regular basis in the Premier League - His name is Tony - Everyone else gets unstuck if they don't try and play football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 37 minutes ago, cheron85 said: You mean the Southampton that are currently in 10th place in the Premier League? That finished 8th (I think) last season? Interesting... Plus all of the below I'd go as far as suggesting there is only one manager capable of sustaining dour, defensive football on a regular basis in the Premier League - His name is Tony - Everyone else gets unstuck if they don't try and play football I would add Allardyce to Pulis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, rynny said: I would add Allardyce to Pulis. His Bolton team played some lovely football after their first season of scrappy survival - Since then the teams he's saved have been fairly industrial but I wouldn't have said they were overly defensive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 minute ago, cheron85 said: His Bolton team played some lovely football after their first season of scrappy survival - Since then the teams he's saved have been fairly industrial but I wouldn't have said they were overly defensive... I would say his teams were more defensive than attacking, mainly playing route 1 stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, rynny said: I would say his teams were more defensive than attacking, mainly playing route 1 stuff. Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, rynny said: I would say his teams were more defensive than attacking, mainly playing route 1 stuff. But by and large did what was needed and the were able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: Fair enough Forgot to add, I agree with you with his Bolton team when he had Jay Jay, Campo, Hierro etc they were a good tema to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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