Sunderland v Derby County - Match day thread

[S8TY]

29 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

For a little balance this is what the Sunderland Chronicle gave for our player ratings:-

DERBY COUNTY: Carson 6, Wisdom 6, Keogh 6, Davies 6, Forsyth 6, Butterfield 6, Huddlestone 6, Johnson 6, Russell 7 (Bryson 89, 6), Martin 5 (Nugent 78, 6), Weimann 5 (Vydra 66, 6). Not used: Mitchell, Baird, Pearce, Bennett

Russell MofM 

Russell mom do me a favour.... love his attitude and he's such a trier but a much better player in his position is required...he should've put wisdom in gave away a daft free kick in first half which we took an eternity to clear and passes to the opposition just as much as he does a Derby shirt.... sorry just not good enough 

 

[S8TY]

Vydra has to start now because he deserves his chance I'd actually like to see Vydra and Nugent together.....CM was a big problem for us tonight.... it lacks energy Johnson and Butterfield need to be changed we need high tempo energetic players for me 

a point though is a point!!!  away from home is an ok start but first half was poor imo

[MrsRam]

Couldn't wait for the start of the season, watched it - and now I wish it was over hahaha.

Sunderland fans, the absolute joke of the prem,now think they are the dogs tatas in the championship - celebrating a dubious penalty like they've won the league and the sky commentators talking like they're Barca...,

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

Lols,the forum is always full of wrist slashers after a loss but it's a new one to see the bus arrive,so full, after a draw....

Almost as if some people actually enjoy being miserable bar stools.

 

[Gritstone Ram]

A few things I thought tonight. 

Sunderlands ground is great although the view from the back row was a bit distant. 

I thought we played ok. It was an away match against a team that had spent the last ten years in the premier league. 

My disappointment was Russell doesn't have that bit of quality we need. I could have strangled Martin for missing that sitter. 

All in all a good day out. We'll worth a visit. 

[Jack Willow]

4 hours ago, EastHertsRam said:

Pleased with a point in the end, not seeing too much evidence of why Rowett has been pleased in training and pre season mind. 

 

4 hours ago, Tombo said:

It's not about that. I'm looking at our performance and we were so one dimensional. 

If Huddlestone is to be our quarter back and the spark of all attacks, he needs to find some comfort with the ball at his feet. Giving it Huddlestone and him pinging it was our only game plan today.

For me personally, it wasn't a really great performance to be remembered, but it wasn’t a completely crap either. It was somewhere in between these two. One point gained away at the beginning of the season is always welcome. 

Some of the players on the pitch looked fine and did well their job, but some looked very sloppy and rusty. I’d say a big restructuring is still needed in the midfield department and as well in the attacking department. 

I am under the impression we've been stuck already for several seasons with the same group of underperforming players. I am also afraid some of the Club’s longest servants aren’t good enough anymore, as they used to be. And a few of the most recent additions like Johnson and Butterfield which were actually rather expensively paid; despite their previous football experience are not really the solution to the problem

Derby’s attacking play is simply a one-dimensional nowadays, because everything goes through the middle through Tom Huddlestone obviously, who’s simply passing long balls forward, which is fine and ok, but it’s too predictable.
Two other midfielders almost don’t participate in the build up play, so it’s kind of obvious for Derby’s opposition how to anticipate and defend effectively.

The midfielders are supposed to be creative and have a vision in the game; and the attackers are supposed to create chances and score goals. 

Gary Rowett knows it very well as we ourselves are guessing it, these are the problems which require his most urgent attention and should be resolved before the end of the transfer window.

[PistoldPete2]

Well at least hud and wisdom have strengthened us but we lack movement in key areas and that was not a surprise given the line up. Need to bring in new players for sure. 

[RamNut]

The fundamental issues is that GR has us set up to counter attack with a long rapid ball out.

e.g. The goal

but we prefer seem to something a bit more controlled and cultured.

decent point though.

next.

[jimbo jones]

7 hours ago, Andicis said:

On paper which of their players is strong? I can't name many of their players and call them 'quality' at all, and I'm coming to conclusion what I've just seen, pre season, and based off of their squad, calling them Premier League is preposterous. 

They're not in the premier league.

Cattermole is easily one of the best midfielders in the division. McGeady was one of the best wingers in this division last season. Kone has the ability to be a top defender. They're whole squad is pretty good for CHAMPIONSHIP level football. 

Personally think people have got to excited writing them off due to the odd paper story and a crap pre season. They've got a good squad and manager for this level.

[Ellafella]

8 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Butterfield can fook off for me, what did he offer today?

Cannot understand for the life of me why Butterfeet gets the nod over Bryson. 

[Ellafella]

40 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

They're not in the premier league.

Cattermole is easily one of the best midfielders in the division. McGeady was one of the best wingers in this division last season. Kone has the ability to be a top defender. They're whole squad is pretty good for CHAMPIONSHIP level football. 

Personally think people have got to excited writing them off due to the odd paper story and a crap pre season. They've got a good squad and manager for this level.

It's not the result or the opposition for me but our style of performance; it reminded me of school playground football: 

No control, no style, no pattern, no real ideas, no collectivity. We have gone from being an elegant, football team, pleasing on the eye but lacking a degree of penetration to hoof-it merchants. We have no control in midfield. We had Huddlestone playing centre half; lord knows where Johnson and Butterfield were meant to be playing. Inchoate, kick and rush, I wouldn't have been surprised if GR had taken off his jumper and offered it to be used as a goalpost...jumpers for goalposts football. 

[Ellafella]

4 hours ago, lioncoeur said:

 

For me personally, it wasn't a really great performance to be remembered, but it wasn’t a completely crap either. It was somewhere in between these two. One point gained away at the beginning of the season is always welcome. 

Some of the players on the pitch looked fine and did well their job, but some looked very sloppy and rusty. I’d say a big restructuring is still needed in the midfield department and as well in the attacking department. 

I am under the impression we've been stuck already for several seasons with the same group of underperforming players. I am also afraid some of the Club’s longest servants aren’t good enough anymore, as they used to be. And a few of the most recent additions like Johnson and Butterfield which were actually rather expensively paid; despite their previous football experience are not really the solution to the problem

Derby’s attacking play is simply a one-dimensional nowadays, because everything goes through the middle through Tom Huddlestone obviously, who’s simply passing long balls forward, which is fine and ok, but it’s too predictable.
Two other midfielders almost don’t participate in the build up play, so it’s kind of obvious for Derby’s opposition how to anticipate and defend effectively.

The midfielders are supposed to be creative and have a vision in the game; and the attackers are supposed to create chances and score goals. 

Gary Rowett knows it very well as we ourselves are guessing it, these are the problems which require his most urgent attention and should be resolved before the end of the transfer window.

midfield is indeed a big problem; we've sold our 2 polished players and replaced them with nowt. GR isn't even in the market for a midfielder. He's after an attacker. If that game is going to be typical of Derby this year, I cannot see us getting behind a 12th-15th placing. Just telling it how I see it. 

[Sparkle]

Early days, we had a few rusty players out there but as you say the main concern for me is the middle of the pitch for us, Butterfield and Johnson as a pair are painful to watch as neither can move forward with the ball and they both appear to lack any good energy, I am sure a fully fit Thorne would make a real difference but he is hardly available, Bryson should always start over Butterfield for me. We need someone to receive the ball and move it progressively forward. Quite often our defenders were looking to give the ball to our midfielders ( Johnson and butterfield) who were both facing our goal six yards from them and promptly mis controlled it or put the defenders in trouble 

we need someone in midfield- now Hughes didn't do much the last two seasons and he has moved on but need someone but who?

[Anag Ram]

53 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Cannot understand for the life of me why Butterfeet gets the nod over Bryson. 

I can't understand how either of them gets to start in a team supposedly aiming for the top six.

Both bang average on the ball and too easily knocked off it.

 

[jimbo jones]

1 hour ago, Ellafella said:

It's not the result or the opposition for me but our style of performance; it reminded me of school playground football: 

No control, no style, no pattern, no real ideas, no collectivity. We have gone from being an elegant, football team, pleasing on the eye but lacking a degree of penetration to hoof-it merchants. We have no control in midfield. We had Huddlestone playing centre half; lord knows where Johnson and Butterfield were meant to be playing. Inchoate, kick and rush, I wouldn't have been surprised if GR had taken off his jumper and offered it to be used as a goalpost...jumpers for goalposts football. 

I'm not going to say we've transformed into hoofball merchants after the first game of the season, but there was too much hoofing last night. The 433 didn't work for me, Russell & Wiemann especially can only really be effective chasing a ball. things improved with the introduction of Vydra and change of system.

we need to get our signings made, whether that's Lawrence or the lad from Preston or whoever and get some creativity in the final third.

[oomarkwright]

Disappointing performance for me. As I stated before. Should have gone for the jugular. They were nervous. Sat back after the goal. Great work by JR for the goal. 

Can see why the penalty was given. Couldn't see whether any any of our shouts we're good enough. 

Keogh great along with the Carse. 

JR frustrates me so much. 

On balance lucky to not lose. Hopefully we will improve, however so will Sunderland so this was a missed opportunity. 

Quite a few changes for Grimsby I expect but wondering if playing it as a full first team pre-season warm up would be more useful. 

[Millenniumram]

Pretty poor performance all round really. Little composure on the ball, far too much panic and imo we were tactically set up wrong. The more pragmatic football Gary plays requires a 4231, particularly away from home. We didn't have enough in attack or defence, hit two men in butterfield and Johnson in the middle who were completely bypassed and irrelevant- the way we set up left us with 9 men.

Only positives were some good touches in the final third, tbf we do look much more like scoring when we hit on the counter. Some good last ditch defending aside, I saw little else to praise other than vydras cameo.

Carson 8- would have lost without him

Wisdom 6- Some good, some bad but worked hard, one great block

Keogh 8 MOM- Some brilliant match saving tackles

Davies 6- Poor mistake for the goal given his experience, ok otherwise

Forsyth 3- Abysmal performance, not helped by lack of match fitness

Huddlestone 7- Have to give him credit for doing the jobs of 3 men, some good passes

Johnson 6- Ok when he did get the ball, got in some golf positions but did little other than score 

Butterfield 4- Compeltky anonymous

Russell 5- Credit for the move for the goal, tried hard but his passing and decision making was woeful 

Weimann 5- Did little, not helped by fozzy playing like an out of form Olsson 

Martin 6- Good when he did get the ball

Subs

Vydra 7- excellent performance, changed the game with his energy and quick thinking, must start

Bryson and Nugent- not enough time 

 

[Sith Happens]

I think we did ok, it wasnt great no but its hard to judge after one game. I am happy with a point.

While its clearly a work in progress lets face it we looked so much better than our first few games last season.

When do we ever start well anyway? Must be that season under clough when we one the first 4 games, other than that its been slow.

Sunderland are a hard team at the moment to judge, but after the week they have had being slated publicly by one of their own players what more motiviation did they need, i think they were always going to be fired up.

[Gritstone Ram]

2 hours ago, Ellafella said:

It's not the result or the opposition for me but our style of performance; it reminded me of school playground football: 

No control, no style, no pattern, no real ideas, no collectivity. We have gone from being an elegant, football team, pleasing on the eye but lacking a degree of penetration to hoof-it merchants. We have no control in midfield. We had Huddlestone playing centre half; lord knows where Johnson and Butterfield were meant to be playing. Inchoate, kick and rush, I wouldn't have been surprised if GR had taken off his jumper and offered it to be used as a goalpost...jumpers for goalposts football. 

I have seen a fair few away performances over the last few years and this one was a typical performance. 

I felt we should have taken the game to Sunderland but instead we sat back most of the time. We had our chances to win.

I think we need to accept that it was a tough place to go. 

I felt we need a little bit of extra quality on the wings then we can start to move.

[Woodley Ram]

4 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Pretty poor performance all round really. Little composure on the ball, far too much panic and imo we were tactically set up wrong. The more pragmatic football Gary plays requires a 4231, particularly away from home. We didn't have enough in attack or defence, hit two men in butterfield and Johnson in the middle who were completely bypassed and irrelevant- the way we set up left us with 9 men.

Only positives were some good touches in the final third, tbf we do look much more like scoring when we hit on the counter. Some good last ditch defending aside, I saw little else to praise other than vydras cameo.

Carson 8- would have lost without him

Wisdom 6- Some good, some bad but worked hard, one great block

Keogh 8 MOM- Some brilliant match saving tackles

Davies 6- Poor mistake for the goal given his experience, ok otherwise

Forsyth 3- Abysmal performance, not helped by lack of match fitness

Huddlestone 7- Have to give him credit for doing the jobs of 3 men, some good passes

Johnson 6- Ok when he did get the ball, got in some golf positions but did little other than score 

Butterfield 4- Compeltky anonymous

Russell 5- Credit for the move for the goal, tried hard but his passing and decision making was woeful 

Weimann 5- Did little, not helped by fozzy playing like an out of form Olsson 

Martin 6- Good when he did get the ball

Subs

Vydra 7- excellent performance, changed the game with his energy and quick thinking, must start

Bryson and Nugent- not enough time 

 

I love it when the spell check takes over "golf positions" a classic. 

Anyway agree but Forsyth was a 6 for me, always liked Vydra and Johnson they will do well for us this year. It's the first game we will get better, defending was better than last year, midfield worse as cattermole killed us and ran the show. McGeedy for 300k a steal a pity we didnt get him.

we missed ince, so we need a replacement for him and an animal for the midfield 

i would have taken a 1-1at the start