Sunderland v Derby County - Match day thread

[secretsquirrel]

Hopefully Sky will come to their senses and stop putting us on TV.We never perform.Not too may positives but at least we were down the Sunderland end during stoppage time and not on the edge of our box.I still think we need to move a few on(Russell Butterfield Weimann etc) but who's likely to take them if they have the same opinion as us? Still a point at least and lets see if any performances by the other squad members in the cup can give Rowett options.

 

 

[Doodle]

2 hours ago, Ellafella said:

It's not the result or the opposition for me but our style of performance; it reminded me of school playground football: 

No control, no style, no pattern, no real ideas, no collectivity. We have gone from being an elegant, football team, pleasing on the eye but lacking a degree of penetration to hoof-it merchants. We have no control in midfield. We had Huddlestone playing centre half; lord knows where Johnson and Butterfield were meant to be playing. Inchoate, kick and rush, I wouldn't have been surprised if GR had taken off his jumper and offered it to be used as a goalpost...jumpers for goalposts football. 

I'm surprised that your surprised Ella about the style of play. A few weeks back you posted an eloquent piece about Gary wanting to turn attack into defence with speed. I responded then with a Hoof-ball comment. I don't want to sound wise after the event but with our personal, that's the only way we can play. 

[Mafiabob]

Desperate for creativity.

Vydra for me to start.

Defence were sound. Forsyth still a bit rusty.

Value the point and we move on.

Nice to meet @Angry Ram out here in the sun. 

[1967Ram]

55 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I think we did ok, it wasnt great no but its hard to judge after one game. I am happy with a point.

While its clearly a work in progress lets face it we looked so much better than our first few games last season.

When do we ever start well anyway? Must be that season under clough when we one the first 4 games, other than that its been slow.

Sunderland are a hard team at the moment to judge, but after the week they have had being slated publicly by one of their own players what more motiviation did they need, i think they were always going to be fired up.

Reading this made me smile. I agree, I thought we were OK too. Typical early season game for me - we could have won it but also could have lost. Too many inconsistent performances from both teams IMO. A draw is OK and hopefully performances will improve (I think they will) as the team 'gels'. 

[StantonRam]

Positives - Carson won us the point with that amazing save, best in the league IMO, back 4 did OK although nervy at times, Keogh led by example, Huddlestone was MOTM for me with some great touches and box to box commitment, Vydra looked sharp when he came on.

Negatives - too many similar players up top, Weimann blew his chance to impress, Russell huffed & puffed, Butters/Martin/Johnson underperformed for me.

We got a point BUT if we are promo contenders with a supposedly settled/experienced team who mostly know each other against a makeshift relegated low budget supposedly low morale side then we should have been able to find a way to get all 3 IMO.

If it's a 4231 then maybe try Huddlestone/Bryson as the 2 then Russell/Nugent/Anya with Vydra up top?

On that evidence we are a top 10 side but not top 6...yet...

I assume he'll give some of the players who didn't feature last night a run on Tuesday to see if someone emerges as a possible solution to last night's many issues...

COYR!!!

[brady1993]

4 hours ago, Ellafella said:

It's not the result or the opposition for me but our style of performance; it reminded me of school playground football: 

No control, no style, no pattern, no real ideas, no collectivity. We have gone from being an elegant, football team, pleasing on the eye but lacking a degree of penetration to hoof-it merchants. We have no control in midfield. We had Huddlestone playing centre half; lord knows where Johnson and Butterfield were meant to be playing. Inchoate, kick and rush, I wouldn't have been surprised if GR had taken off his jumper and offered it to be used as a goalpost...jumpers for goalposts football. 

Pretty spot on here. It was awful to watch. I'm currently giving the players the benefit of the doubt because it clearly was tactical to launch the ball out of defence as quick as possible and for me the blame for that performance lays squarely at Rowett's feet.

[brady1993]

4 hours ago, Ellafella said:

Cannot understand for the life of me why Butterfeet gets the nod over Bryson. 

I agree but not for the same reason as you. If the plan is play kick and rush, as evidenced by last night then there is zero point playing Butterfield.

Otherwise though if we say want to actual play through the midfield as opposed just over them you need one of the three to be the 'link' player who helps transition you through the middle. There's only really Butterfield who can do that in the current squad and for me Bryson would be competing with Johnson's spot for the player looking to break past the striker.

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, Doodle said:

I'm surprised that your surprised Ella about the style of play. A few weeks back you posted an eloquent piece about Gary wanting to turn attack into defence with speed. I responded then with a Hoof-ball comment. I don't want to sound wise after the event but with our personal, that's the only way we can play. 

It's the worry I've had about Rowett ever since he came in. "Move forward a bit quicker with less emphasis on possesion" has very quickly become lump it forward doesn't matter if the ball is on or not just get it forward.

[RamNut]

4 hours ago, Ellafella said:

Cannot understand for the life of me why Butterfeet gets the nod over Bryson. 

 

[SuperDerbySuperRams]

Very poor from Butterfield for their goal. Not just the handball, but the initial piece of defending before it. Vydra must start, can't help but feel the 433 isn't utilising the current squad we have properly. 

[cymru]

26 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Pretty spot on here. It was awful to watch. I'm currently giving the players the benefit of the doubt because it clearly was tactical to launch the ball out of defence as quick as possible and for me the blame for that performance lays squarely at Rowett's feet.

Rowett dose not give me any hope if this is his style of play football  is going to be going forward hoofing the ball over that is old school play mmm is this what Mel said playing the derby way ??????

[Lokidoki]

1 minute ago, SuperDerbySuperRams said:

Very poor from Butterfield for their goal. Not just the handball, but the initial piece of defending before it. Vydra must start, can't help but feel the 433 isn't utilising the current squad we have properly. 

I cannot agree more, I was surprised by GR. It was evident the balance was wrong - like a throw back to SM's plan A. All of the 433 failings were on display and exposed in minutes, bar for our goal. All of the known limitations of the team, such as who can play well alongside each other in the front two of midfield, and the drifting out of the game of CM, (I can name 4 other previously known failings) were there to be seen straight away.

I know it's the first match but GR should, by now, have a feel for his players and their balance. I'm afraid like most of the previous set (of managers) the football did not reflect that; which is rather sad as I was hoping we had a manager that could course correct during the game, a lot quicker than he did do. I just do hope he improves - otherwise we will be in for another wasted season ticket and another manager by Xmas.

[Spenno]

About the type of performance I expected, it's been a long time since we played attractive free flowing football. I think anyone expecting that will be disappointed this season. Could and possibly should have won the game I felt we could have taken control after the first goal as you could see it had knocked the stuffing out of them but we let them back in to the match. I thought we looked a lot fitter than them in the second half which bodes well for us hopefully picking up points rather than losing them in the last ten minutes of games this season. All in all an ok away point! 

[EnigmaRam]

Am I the only that thought Hudds wasn't great? Seemed that we passed it to him and he punted it forward. Bar the one pass to Russell for our goal there was a lot of smashes up the park straight through to there keeper

[RamNut]

schteve was giving us a bit of schtick on Sky.

[one_chop]

4 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Am I the only that thought Hudds wasn't great? Seemed that we passed it to him and he punted it forward. Bar the one pass to Russell for our goal there was a lot of smashes up the park straight through to there keeper

I thought that too. 

[ramit]

The type of football we play now is best performed on a large pitch, Sunderland's is short and narrow.  Butterfield could have had a better game, was unlucky with the penalty and if you look back at footage, he was shoved in the box and denied a clear penalty himself.  i believe Weimann can have a good season for us, especially on larger pitches.  Don't write him off yet.  The criticism of Russell i just don't get, sure he makes bad passes at times, but what he does well fully outweighs his deficiencies.  Here's a player who can get past his man in a tight position and into the box to shoot or lay it off, runs all game, good on the left or the right, challenges for loose balls, gets himself into good positions to receive the ball from the likes of Huddlestone, aggressive, tackles, helps the defence and with an engine to match. Many teams in this division only wish they had a player like that.

Star of the show was Keogh, i was really impressed with him, like having our own Beckenbauer almost

Huddlestone is a massive signing for us, it cannot be overstated how important he already is for all our play

Wisdom is much better than Christie IMO and he actually knows how to take a throw in

Vydra was very impressive, dangerous and mobile with a cunning sense of play, really getting to see what he can offer us

A few words on Forsyth.  He actually played better than i had dared to hope, coming back from such a long injury is not easy and he will grow back into his role fairly quickly i think

[kingsy1884]

We had two great chances to win it on another day we would. A good point away from home though.

I thought we looked a lot more balanced when we switched to a 4231 and Vydra is probably the only players with the imagination and skill to fill the void left by Ince. But we have a severe lack of wingers hence why we had 4 CMs on the pitch at the end.

[Spenno]

2 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Am I the only that thought Hudds wasn't great? Seemed that we passed it to him and he punted it forward. Bar the one pass to Russell for our goal there was a lot of smashes up the park straight through to there keeper

I thought Sunderland closed him down well (other than when he got away for the goal). It reminded me of how teams played against us under clement when Thorne was the only player we had with a range of passing. Think it was very much stop him stop derby, when they tired second half and he was able to move up the pitch we took a measure of control. 

[brady1993]

Carson - 7 - Played ok and pulled of a very good save time deny cattermole

Wisdom - 4 - Defended ok but absolutely garbage on the ball with the play breaking down way too much with him. Looks like a CB shoved out there. 

Keogh - 7 - Defended well and was the only defender who made anything like an attempt to play football.

Davies - 6 - Solid for the most part apart from the c*** up with Huddlestone.  

Forsyth - 3 -looked very rusty both defending and going forward.  Was pulling my hair out with him launching the ball forwards into the box from the halfway line.

Huddlestone - 7 - Did ok for the most part but faded badly. Would have been a 6 but produced the one genuine moment of quality in a poor poor game.

Johnson - 5 - was pretty poor for most of the game but scored. So a pretty typical Johnson performance. 

Butterfield - 5 - Not great but I think a lot better midfielders would have struggled to influence the gap with how we were set up tactically. Looked better when we started to play football after 70 minutes.

Russell - 6 - Some good and quite a bit bad but did well to set up the goal.

Martin - 6 - Some intelligent touches when he was actually given the ball to feet or chest. Should have buried his chance but showed some promise with Vydra.

Wiemann - 4 - a lot of effort but very little quality.

Vydra - 7 - A genuine bright spark and looked very lively. Lovely pass to set up Martin. Probably should be given a chance next week.

Nugent  - A reckless challenge should have seen a booking and should have scored but didn't really have chance to influence 

Bryson - not enough time to influence  

 

Rowett - 3 - Shocking tactics from the get go. We had an extra man in midfield, should have been looking to control the game and make them chase it particularly after we scored. Instead we negated our numerical advantage in midfield by lumping it forward at every possible opportunity, playing straight into Sunderlands hands. Very little point playing a 433 with those tactics and very little point playing Martin or Butterfield with those tactics. If the plan was to hoof into channels we should have started with two up front to at least give us an attacking presence. Should have changed something at half time either tactics or personally. Will give him some credit for the vydra substitution but should have been braver and brought on Bennett for Johnson. Bryson sub was negative time wasting. I guess though he set up for a point and got it so there's that.