v Port Vale & Doncaster Match Thread

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Just now, David said:

You don't think 8 pairs of fresh legs on a pitch makes a difference then? 

Of course they do but the difference in supposed quality should also count for a great deal. It didn't.

[Day]

Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Of course they do but the difference in supposed quality should also count for a great deal. It didn't.

But that's not what these games are about, it's purely fitness, just posted this in another topic but I'll share it here as well, this is before the games even kicked off

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2017/07/itll-be-a-different-challenge

Quote

 

He told RamsTV: “It’s going to be a different challenge.

“With the first two games being 45 minutes each, you would expect that the players will be sharp enough to cope with that.

“I think tonight will be different. We want to win all the games of course, but they are largely immaterial and after 70 minutes some players are going to find it tough.

“That’s natural because it’s their first full game. We know the opposition will look to change their team and have more energy, but this is where our boys will find their fitness by getting 90 minutes.”

He added: “It’s a harder challenge because we’re playing teams higher up in the league system.

 

Doncaster made all their changes by 60 minutes. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

David, I am simply saying the difference in quality didn't shine through enough to me. I fully understand the fitness argument but maybe we should push a little or a lot harder earlier on. I'm sure the fitness they have gained will help build to the start of the season but quality was not really on show at all second half and not enough first half. I am worried we still haven't learned from previous seasons. If I had seen us batter them in the first half I could accept the second. Yes we did better first half but not showing enough quality in my humble opinion.

 

PS. Just because the game plan is to achieve fitness it doesn't mean good players can't display their quality.

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

19 minutes ago, Duracell said:

You asked a question, you got the answer.

I got an answer not necessarily the answer.

[Duracell]

17 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Of course they do but the difference in supposed quality should also count for a great deal. It didn't.

If we put out two different first team sides for 45 minutes each against Southampton, who played the same team for 90 minutes, would you expect us to be pummeled?

Only one league between us and Donny remember.

[Duracell]

Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I got an answer not necessarily the answer.

You asked why they looked fitter than us - one group of athletes doing their sport for longer than another group is a pretty good explanation.

Difference in quality is a different question, but you asked about fitness. 

[RamNut]

19 minutes ago, David said:

Doncaster made all their changes by 60 minutes. 

Cheating barstewards

er. 

So presumably we stuffed them for the first hour?

[Coneheadjohn]

1 hour ago, curtains said:

We did but have now conceded so it's 1-1 

First half we did.Second half,not so much.

[cosmic]

It's been a good warmup for the players to get fit ready for the new season, and also a nice warmup for the wristslashers to do the same. 

[Day]

4 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Cheating barstewards

er. 

So presumably we stuffed them for the first hour?

We didn't, maybe the players knew they were heading for their first 90 minutes and would face fresh legs in the last half hour, both sides were open in the media of their intentions for tonight's game. Probably chose not to go out looking to batter them, get the game wrapped up by half time but prioritised getting through the 90 over the 3pts on offer tonight 

[Ambitious]

I only watched the first half, and even that was tentatively, but I don't see how you can gauge too much from pre-season. I don't buy into the argument that the results and performances are completely meaningless, but it's definitely not worth getting amped up about. I would say there is just about enough good stuff to focus on as there is other stuff to work on. 

The only thing I will say is that I think we're desperate for quality out wide. I think most of us said it when Ince was here, so it's even more apparent now. 

I can't help but think the necessity of finding intelligent wide players who can find space, especially given Huddlestone coming into the team, is of high priority. He needs players he can pick out with a pass that aren't naturally sat in the back pocket of a defender or too poor to take a touch without letting a defender get chance to get his foot in. I don't have any issues with the team now, aside from the wide positions, that need strengthening on both sides. 

[Ramos]

42 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

David, I am simply saying the difference in quality didn't shine through enough to me. I fully understand the fitness argument but maybe we should push a little or a lot harder earlier on. I'm sure the fitness they have gained will help build to the start of the season but quality was not really on show at all second half and not enough first half. I am worried we still haven't learned from previous seasons. If I had seen us batter them in the first half I could accept the second. Yes we did better first half but not showing enough quality in my humble opinion.

 

PS. Just because the game plan is to achieve fitness it doesn't mean good players can't display their quality.

 

Without energy a players quality is heavily affected. It was clear to see by about 65 mins most of our players were exhausted. You can say our quality should shine through, but if you're tired even the simplest things become tough. 

If players are too tired to make the runs, too tired to think about playing a pass, play breaks down. Link up is no longer second nature and our players naturally got deeper in order to defend without having to exert too much energy. 

I think people need to stop reading too much into pre season. We could win every game 7 0 and lose to sunderland on the opening day. It rarely gives you an insight into how the season will start and pan out. 

[Kernow]

I missed the games tonight as I was working, but it's good to see that we have more match action under our belts with no injuries picked up in game. I think it was a great idea to play two games on the same night. Maximises the match fitness of the majority of our squad as well as giving younger players a possible chance of playing with first team players.

The result is the least important thing in these matches, they mean absolutely nothing to how the season will go. It doesn't matter if we lose to a League Two side or beat a PL side, both mean absolutely nothing. We were minutes away from beating two Premier League sides last season and we finished ninth, and we beat them in competitive matches with a lot on the line. Drawing at Doncaster does not mean we will have an unsuccessful season, nor does it mean that Doncaster will go up because they managed to draw against a top-half Championship side.

[B4ev6is]

We have one mate darren bent I think hamstring after he took the pentley.

[Ninos]

42 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I got an answer not necessarily the answer.

What you're saying is so obvious TSP that it's really not worth you defending yourself here. The performance and yes the "talent" we put on display was extremely discouraging, and troubling. As to fitness, regardless, this wasn't a track meet it was a football match. When we play the Germans we will prob see what we've really got 

Bottom line and Rowett knows it: we have a LOT of bad/mediocre players to move out as quickly as possible so we can gel a team here. 

[B4ev6is]

I think we had 638 at port vale

[DarkFruitsRam7]

3 hours ago, coneheadjohn said:

Good turnout at Donny?

This sounds strange I know, but are you a big bald bloke? Think I was a couple of rows behind you and your lads (I recognised Joel).

[TuffLuff]

Find some of the overanalysing in here amazing at times.

Although it's great to be able to watch the preseason games online, I consider that they certainly aren't for every fan as they can be quite tedious. What always needs to be considered is that all players take these games differently, especially ones suspectabke to injuries. Some feel they want to impress, and be involved, while others like going through the motions and even just watch other players movement around them. It honestly doesn't bother me.

Also I think there's something similar in comedians talking about their Edinburgh festival previews, in that if the previews go well they will end up having a terrible show because they think there's nothing to work on. I think something similar can be traced to preseason too, if we were looking great then there's nothing to work on.

Again no one can expect the finished project now, if you are then you are expecting too much

[uttoxram75]

The match at Vale started off reasonable. Some decent possession and a couple of pinpoint 40 yarders from Tom. Anya looked great as he beat the first two defenders until he ran into trouble taking the 3rd and 4th on...probably should have been 2-0 up before Carson had to make a decent save in the top corner from a lively Vale attack.

Not bothered about the result one bit but was a tad concerned that Vale seemed to fizz it about on the deck whenever they got the chance while we wanted to hit 40 or 50 yard defence splitters.

I'm hoping Gary is just experimenting and we end up playing with enough energy to fizz the ball around rather than hopefully hoofing it toward a hi viz coloured yellow shirt like we did at times tonight.

[Leicester Ram]

Been at work, just skimmed a few pages of arguing there and haven't seen a thing about the games apart from the kit. Let me guess what happened.

-we didn't destroy either team 5-0 so the people who expect us to sign Jota and Lawrence by Friday have kicked off.

-one of our key players did something embarrassing because it's pre-season and they're rusty (probably Johnson)

-Keogh or Davies captaincy controversy

-Baird is better than Wisdom controversy

-Rowett blinked a lot in the interviews, is he falling apart already?

-Hanson was crap because he's 5'10 and got asked to play CB

-Bent probably did well

-@ClinicalVydra and @DeadlyKeogh reckon Bennett's better than established championship wingers Ikechi Anya and Johnny Russell off the back of a few pre-season games. Mainly because they've had their Russell toy for a while and want a new toy to play with on Fifa now.

-Nugent smiled or something and everyone was like 'love Nuge's character and work rate!!! :)'