Signed: Tom Lawrence - Undisclosed fee, long term contract

[nogbad van 50]

34 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I think he's occasionally an 8/9 player - But he's never a liability - He always works hard, very rarely messes up his defensive duties and doesn't often leave us in danger

I tend to have a more generous ratings system than most people so maybe what I call 7/10 across the board would be most people's 6/10 - But the "not messing up" factor is what the 7/10 players from Huddersfield and Brighton have 

I must have missed that game! Working hard is a given requirement for any player and ,from him,it usually follows a poor first touch,an inaccurate pass or losing the ball to an opponent.He's a decent player to have on the bench but not the type who can take us up a level.

[Duracell]

14 minutes ago, McLovin said:

That points to how poor our recruitment has been recently. He only scored 1 more goal has season than the 'antichrist' Nick Blackman last season, despite playing many,many more minutes.

I love a god goal or assist stat, but they get thrown about like the managers and coaches willfully ignore them in favour of other arbitary qualities a player brings; except, of course, these other qualities are not arbitary at all.

Russell can't hold a candle to Tom Ince ability wise, and I'm sure that he's nowhere near as good as Lawrence either. It's okay to say that, and it's also okay for such a player to be in our side.

Russell at the bare minimum is a 6 out of 10 player, because even when it's not going well for him offensively - and let's be honest, that was more often than not last season - he's protecting his full back and stopping attacks down our left flank. You attack from the back and defend from the front, and that so often gets overlooked when people judge players across the pitch.

About half the forum and man fans in the stand love to tell us about how overrated Russell is, but the fact so many are saying it suggests to me that he's not overrated at all. Players like Russell get harshly judged against Inces, Lawrences and others which isn't a fair standard to judge them by - a team full of Tom Inces would be ridiculous, we'd get over 100 points.

Unspectacular players aren't the obstacle to promotion for any side, providing they do a steady job and allow the match-winners and key players to shine. Russell does that, and he's not the reason we're still in this league.

 

[Millenniumram]

7 minutes ago, McLovin said:

 

The likes of Russell and Bryson get away it far more than our recent signings like Butterfield for some reason because they appear to be more likeable and many think that they work harder. 

Always seem the same, new signings are always judged harsher than existing players. I tend to look at it the other way round, be more lenient to new signings while they settle in. Prolonged periods of poor form for players who've been here a long time I criticise more, there's no excuse for Russell's appalling year last season, even with the team playing so badly you've gotta do better than he has. 

I mean look at vydra, much maligned last year but he scored 3 times as many goals as Russell, with a lot less minutes I'd wager. It's all cause the new signings cost more money, people need to understand that's the market now and not expect the players to be world beaters straight away or hold the players accountable for their inflated price tags.

[Sexydadbod]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No. It's because unlike Butterfield, Weimann, Anya or Blackman, Russell and Bryson have actually performed at a good level for this club.

Couldn't care about what happened ages ago, what matters is the here and now and neither have performed well recently. If past form mattered, Casillas would still be at Real Madrid. I don't hate Russell and Bryson, I just think they are vastly overrated by a large proportion of Derby fans, the same kind who boo Butterfield for passing it backwards.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, McLovin said:

Couldn't care about what happened ages ago, what matters is the here and now and neither have performed well recently. If past form mattered, Casillas would still be at Real Madrid. I don't hate Russell and Bryson, I just think they are vastly overrated by a large proportion of Derby fans, the same kind who boo Butterfield for passing it backwards.

You asked why fans allow JR & Bryso to get away with far more, I told you my opinion - that it was because at least JR and Bryso have shown ability previously.

[BuckoBeast]

15 minutes ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said:

Any update? 

@MACKWORTHRAM @SuperDerbySuperRams

[DEL]

Just now, BuckoBeast said:

@SuperDerbySuperRams

Yes SDSR what happening? 

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Gandalf's shin pads said:

I think we will need more than Lawrence (if he joins). In the absence of Ince we don't have a single other winger/wide player of the required standard to help push for promotion. They are either strikers being asked to play out of position or are not penetrative enough.

I'm not saying they are bad players. Merely that, from what I have seen of the Weimann, Blackmann, Anya and Russell, the best that can be said for them is that they are decent, and being decent doesn't get you promoted. To my mind we need genuine quality that carries a threat on both flanks. Even if Lawrence arrives it's only half the job. 

Personally, I also think we need to replace Hughes in the middle as none of our existing squad can replicate what he did for us. Butterfield often threatens genuine quality but it never seems to materialise consistently. Johnson and Bryson are willing runners and tacklers and every team needs players like them but they don't really provide much else, at least not anymore. Hanson is young and may improve but is not there yet. Huddlestone and Thorne are class at this level but it's likely (who knows) they will be shielding the back four and at the end of the day they can't do everything from that postion.

Not trying to sound pessimistic. I'd love Rowett and the team to prove me wrong. I think we will be solid at the back and hard for others to break down but we seem to have strengthened in defence at the expense of weakening ourselves further up the pitch. As I have said elsewhere, and I'm probably being a bit greedy with other peoples money, I think we need two quality wingers and another attacking/creative central midfielder. 

I'm sure things are in the pipeline but hope that Lawrence isn't the only iron in the fire (to mix a metaphor!) I just think, if we are looking to seriously challenge, the squad looks a bit 6/7 out of 10 at moment with what is currently available. 

Decent post this, and we are a decent team but high quality wingers don't really exist in the championship with the best being costa at wolves I would say and he is injured currently I believe and cost wolves a double digit million fee. I feel we need a creative central midfielder  ( could that be Thorne this season?) but they don't grow on trees at the price we can afford so should we gamble big and blow it badly again? Or go with a lot of balance with our decent squad? 

[Mr Tibbs]

8 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Couldn't care about what happened ages ago, what matters is the here and now and neither have performed well recently. If past form mattered, Casillas would still be at Real Madrid. I don't hate Russell and Bryson, I just think they are vastly overrated by a large proportion of Derby fans, the same kind who boo Butterfield for passing it backwards.

I think there needs to be a bit of middle ground really. With our fans it seems to be one extreme or the other. Over rated or under rated. Why can't we just rate them correctly as to what they are. Decent Championship players. We're a decent Championship team so I don't see a massive issue? Every team that's ever gone up has had them in the starting XI and considering where we're at there's no harm in having them. Of course we want/need better but we can't have a whole team of PL quality players unfortunately. 

It's down to the managers and the coaches to get an improved consistency out of them for that one season because really, any player which performs to a very high level consistently in this league gets snapped up by teams in the PL. Russell and Bryson are where they belong IMO but they have shown previously they have the ability to perform above their normal levels in the right circumstances. We just need another year from them like that to go that extra step. 

[Sparkle]

47 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Russell over the last year has been a 4/10 at best. People show favouritism to the clough originals.

Our best players last year were Ince 7/10 Carson 7/10 and Baird 7/10 in my opinion - basically we were naff so let's see come Christmas if some are a lot better or not.

[Sparkle]

38 minutes ago, McLovin said:

That points to how poor our recruitment has been recently. He only scored 1 more goal has season than the 'antichrist' Nick Blackman last season, despite playing many,many more minutes.

Maybe we should not have let Blackman have that penalty then ( although his career actually says he can score them unlike in open play) 

[ollycutts1982]

16 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Our best players last year were Ince 7/10 Carson 7/10 and Baird 7/10 in my opinion - basically we were naff so let's see come Christmas if some are a lot better or not.

Out of those 3 Carson will play, Ince has gone and Baird more than likely will be a back up. Our problem in the past is that we haven't had enough consistency throughout the season. Thudd, Wisdom and Davies should all be consistent performers. Just need a few more to follow suit. 

[Rab a dab doo]

Marks out 10 are like beauty,  in the eyes of the beholder.

[Sparkle]

1 minute ago, ollycutts1982 said:

Out of those 3 Carson will play, Ince has gone and Baird more than likely will be a back up. Our problem in the past is that we haven't had enough consistency throughout the season. Thudd, Wisdom and Davies should all be consistent performers. Just need a few more to follow suit. 

I agree and my point was that we were as a team last year - naff, and I don't think that will be the case this year

[Foxes Fan]

2 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Is Lawrence coming to us Foxes Fan?

Your guess is as good as mine to be honest. I'd like to keep him. We've got pre-season games coming thick and fast for the next ten days so I imagine he'll get some game time to prove himself and we'll have a better idea of where he'll end up then.

[mwram1973]

Can we stop banging on about how good or bad Russell is, this is a Lawrence thread not a bash russell thread!!.

[Gandalf's shin pads]

18 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Decent post this, and we are a decent team but high quality wingers don't really exist in the championship with the best being costa at wolves I would say and he is injured currently I believe and cost wolves a double digit million fee. I feel we need a creative central midfielder  ( could that be Thorne this season?) but they don't grow on trees at the price we can afford so should we gamble big and blow it badly again? Or go with a lot of balance with our decent squad? 

Yeah, I entirely accept your point. If Russell had a good first touch and end product, if Weimann could finish or Anya was better at decision making they would all be lower end Premier League players. They are in the Championship for a reason. 

I'm not saying I have any answers. As you say, the calibre of player we need are not readily or cheaply available in the Championship.

I suppose I feel a little frustration at the thought that we, seemingly, had to sell Ince (quality Championship winger) and Hughes to finance a rebuild that may not have been necessary had we been more prudent in our transfer buisness over the last two seasons. 

To my mind, we have either bought players we didn't need or if we did need them, acquired players of no greater quality than we already had and didn't  necessarily improve us. I also feel we overpaid in many of those deals.  

I accept that hindsight is a wonderful thing and these deals perhaps seemed necessary at the time from the clubs perspective. There are also the demands of the selling club to consider. Having said that, personally, I don't think the collective contribution of Vydra, Weimann, Blackman, Johnson, Camara, Butterfield, Anya and Shackell has been worth the £33 million (ish) we paid out for them (I know we have recouped some of it) 

Again, I am not saying that I think these are poor players or that they don't give their all. Some have been here longer than others and need a little leeway/or been hit with unfortunate injury. Nor do they determine their transfer fee. 

I am just of the opinion that they have not significantly improved us and we seem to have spent a vast sum simply to stand still. If we had kept our powder dry and been a little more sensible at times we may be in a stronger position now.

Anyway, rant over! All of the above are just my own thoughts/frustrations (just airing a personal gripe really!) Like I say, hindsight is a beautiful thing! 

 

[cheron85]

1 hour ago, mwram1973 said:

Can we stop banging on about how good or bad Russell is, this is a Lawrence thread not a bash russell thread!!.

This is just advanced set up so that when we sign Lawrence we can just do a quick "replace all" and sub his name in for Russell - We do hate our own players after a while

[Rample]

1 hour ago, Foxes Fan said:

Your guess is as good as mine to be honest. I'd like to keep him. We've got pre-season games coming thick and fast for the next ten days so I imagine he'll get some game time to prove himself and we'll have a better idea of where he'll end up then.

And therein lies our next problem, I have no doubt one or two may come in, but the chances of still being as we are against Sunderland must be fairly high.

[nogbad van 50]

1 hour ago, Gandalf's shin pads said:

Yeah, I entirely accept your point. If Russell had a good first touch and end product, if Weimann could finish or Anya was better at decision making they would all be lower end Premier League players. They are in the Championship for a reason. 

I'm not saying I have any answers. As you say, the calibre of player we need are not readily or cheaply available in the Championship.

I suppose I feel a little frustration at the thought that we, seemingly, had to sell Ince (quality Championship winger) and Hughes to finance a rebuild that may not have been necessary had we been more prudent in our transfer buisness over the last two seasons. 

To my mind, we have either bought players we didn't need or if we did need them, acquired players of no greater quality than we already had and didn't  necessarily improve us. I also feel we overpaid in many of those deals.  

I accept that hindsight is a wonderful thing and these deals perhaps seemed necessary at the time from the clubs perspective. There are also the demands of the selling club to consider. Having said that, personally, I don't think the collective contribution of Vydra, Weimann, Blackman, Johnson, Camara, Butterfield, Anya and Shackell has been worth the £33 million (ish) we paid out for them (I know we have recouped some of it) 

Again, I am not saying that I think these are poor players or that they don't give their all. Some have been here longer than others and need a little leeway/or been hit with unfortunate injury. Nor do they determine their transfer fee. 

I am just of the opinion that they have not significantly improved us and we seem to have spent a vast sum simply to stand still. If we had kept our powder dry and been a little more sensible at times we may be in a stronger position now.

Anyway, rant over! All of the above are just my own thoughts/frustrations (just airing a personal gripe really!) Like I say, hindsight is a beautiful thing! 

 

Saying the same thing over and over again is pointless.It's happened,it wasn't great and we now need to look forward not backwards ! Time to move on and try a little positivity please!!