RoyMac5 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just now, LeedsCityRam said: That England team probably disproves your point if anything. I bet the England team don't agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I bet the England team don't agree with you. Different circumstances but a similar character - did you rate Roy Keane as a captain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Once you've had Jake Buxton as a leader............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said: That England team probably disproves your point if anything. We had Dallaglio (captain before his drugs indiscretion), Richard Hill (who was unbelievably influential) & chippy characters like Dawson & Greenwood who cajoled & encouraged (particularly the forwards) a lot more verbally than Johnson. Like all good sides, everyone took responsibility for leading at various points. One man alone can't make up for a lack of character elsewhere in the team & hence I agree with PodgeyRam that the actual position of captain isn't really that relevant. So? The Fellowship the Ring had Ned Sharpe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said: Different circumstances but a similar character - did you rate Roy Keane as a captain? I don't know about his captaincy, only his behaviour. Not a fan. Why continue with 'captains' if they serve no purpose? Because they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: I don't know about his captaincy, only his behaviour. Not a fan. Why continue with 'captains' if they serve no purpose? Because they do. OK but think we'd both agree he was an strong character with a fairly uncompromising approach. But Man Utd still won the 1999 Champions League even though he was suspended. I think captains do serve a purpose with regard to the formalities of the game - calling the coin toss, liaising with the referee & the like but don't believe its a vital role in such an unstructured sport - the game is too fast paced & has so many different facets for one man to be that dominant. Probably has more relevance in a more structured sport like cricket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Captains are a relic of the past imo. There is nothing to stop players inspiring and geeing up other players when they aren't wearing the armband. Look at the Germany team that won the World Cup. Yeah Lahm wore the armband, but Hummels, Boateng, Schweinsteiger and Klose were leaders on the pitch as well. Successful teams have captains all over the pitch, which is why people's obsession with Keogh wearing it/not wearing it is completely missing the point. People get far too worked up over that piece of cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minesahartington Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 teams of winners possibly dont but unfortunately teams of losers really do, although its probably having a weak captsin thats part of the problem when sides are struggling, even great sides, captains can lead by example and drag their team over the line. Plenty of examples beckham v spain, gerrard in the champions league final Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Didn't know Gary had lost his skipper. I've been away for two days and this is what happens. Shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Really? Didn't know we were looking for a skipper? What has happened to this forum, we have signed a solid but aging defender, past his best. And the forum seems to think we have found a new Mac or Todd? Is he really that better than we currently have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 While I agree with some of the posts on here I also disagree with a good few. A good leader is someone who can get his team onside. I have been in the military for most of my working life and as I moved up the ladder a boss of mine once said to me, "Your best asset is your man-power, get them onside and you can achieve anything". OK I whilst we are talking a team game you need a leader on the pitch who not only carries the respect of the entire team, he also needs the ability to gain the respect of those who would challenge his authority. Rugby teams have many strong personalities with 'VOICES' on the pitch, but they also know who is the captain. As for Keogh's form as captain versus not being captain. It really depends on the Character and if he is a natural leader. If he is a natural then he shouldn't have to think about it too much and it shouldn't effect his performance. If he is not a natural then his mind might be half on the 'what if scenario'. Cricket is a fine example of showing up Captains who do not have the natural ability. You can teach leadership all you like but only a natural leader will succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 hours ago, toddy said: Really? Didn't know we were looking for a skipper? What has happened to this forum, we have signed a solid but aging defender, past his best. And the forum seems to think we have found a new Mac or Todd? Is he really that better than we currently have? Wonder what you would have thought when we signed Dave Mackay? Yes Davies has been a better player than all of our centre backs. Is he now? Well we see when the season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 hours ago, toddy said: Really? Didn't know we were looking for a skipper? What has happened to this forum, we have signed a solid but aging defender, past his best. And the forum seems to think we have found a new Mac or Todd? Is he really that better than we currently have? Dunno, not seen him in a Derby shirt yet. But it sounds like you've already made your mind up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 13 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: Seriously? You need a rethink. Do you think England would have won the World Cup without the brilliant captaincy of Martin Johnson? There needs to be one voice, not many. That voice on the pitch comes from the captain. If we had a decent one you'd notice the difference. Maybe Martin Johnson would have been a leader with or without a piece of elastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I truly believe most people get wound up about Keogh being our captain because they get embarrassed when we conceed a sloppy goal and our captain, our rock, instead of grabbing the ball out the back of the net, and encouraging the rest of the team to pull their socks up, descends into a childish spaz attack. I'm all for players calling out others who have made a mistake, but do it an authoritative way. Fix them with an icy glare, or point of the finger that let's them know, in no uncertain terms, they need to sort their s*** out sharpish. Not scream, shout, and flap your arms around like a 4 year old who's had their Chewits taken away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, cosmic said: Dunno, not seen him in a Derby shirt yet. But it sounds like you've already made your mind up. Of course he has, and we all know what a great judge of ability he is. No point even attempting to judge him, @toddy has spoken.. #toddyfacts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Nobody is saying you don't need leaders The point is leaders lead regardless. I've never played football and thought "oh my god, he's got an armband on I must be inspired by that man.!!" You listen to who makes sense in your head. Armband or not. Every summer we do this ****. It's an armband not a therapy cushion. If Joe Bloggs is a leader then he'll lead without an armband. If he's too scared to talk without the sacred elastic then he's not a leader is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: I truly believe most people get wound up about Keogh being our captain because they get embarrassed when we conceed a sloppy goal and our captain, our rock, instead of grabbing the ball out the back of the net, and encouraging the rest of the team to pull their socks up, descends into a childish spaz attack. I'm all for players calling out others who have made a mistake, but do it an authoritative way. Fix them with an icy glare, or point of the finger that let's them know, in no uncertain terms, they need to sort their s*** out sharpish. Not scream, shout, and flap your arms around like a 4 year old who's had their Chewits taken away... I can appreciate that but he won't stop doing it if you take the armband away. I don't think players will take any more or less notice of it whether he does it with the armband or not. Same with Martin flapping his arms. Stick an armband on him and it's not like everyone else will take extra notice. Shackell is quite authoritive if you watch him. He gets players instantly around him organised. They move where he points anyway. He does it without the armband. Leaders lead. They can't help it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, Alpha said: I can appreciate that but he won't stop doing it if you take the armband away. I don't think players will take any more or less notice of it whether he does it with the armband or not. Same with Martin flapping his arms. Stick an armband on him and it's not like everyone else will take extra notice. Shackell is quite authoritive if you watch him. He gets players instantly around him organised. They move where he points anyway. He does it without the armband. Leaders lead. They can't help it. Not got a problem with him doing it, just so he's not the focal point of encouragement when we've just gone 2-0 down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 17 hours ago, cosmic said: Fed up of the misguided criticism of Keogh being captain. His performances don't change because he's wearing an armband! It always has to be something with a certain section of fans. He can't bloody win! I totally agree, his performances are the same with or without a crappy piece of fabric around his arm.....he is just as rubbish witthout it as he is with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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