Nigel Clough Sacking

[Steve How Hard?]

17 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

Can we not just have a caged thread where you defend/criticise Nigel to the death, and leave this one to Sam the Snake/Sam the saint?

Wow Revdev, what happened to your avatar? Looks like Brains has had a heavy night on the pop. 

[ramblur]

1 hour ago, davenportram said:

It was more about offloading them and then relacing with cheaper better players than just offloading them. Wage bill cut from £17m to below £8m and with that you got the bulk of a third place team. 

Cheaper in terms of both wages and fees allowed to pay.

[ramblur]

31 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

And when I say we had rubbish players, I meant at Premier League, top end of Championship, we certainly should not have been struggling at the bottom of the Championship.

Yet we were struggling towards the bottom of the Championship,which is why Nigel was brought in.With one or two exceptions,notably Hulse and Commons,the rest weren't much cop.Some might include Green,but I didn't rate him that much.

[ramblur]

1 hour ago, CumbrianRam said:

Give it another two years and it would have been below 20k,.

That's purely a matter of opinion. From what I remember of the start of 13/14,we'd played pretty well away from home and lost at home to 2 teams that romped automatics,and a third that finished 7th.Who knows what would have happened with results and attendances with easier home games to follow his sacking.

Before and during the gumps game I was in hospital having a replacement hip op,which involved a longer stay  than intended,due to complications. I seem to remember people saying that (apart from Burnley) we'd generally been playing fairly well.

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

I spoke to one of the players about this, in quite some depth. Next time I see him I'll ask if I can have his permission to name him. I think you all know that I've still got some ties. Not saying I'm ITK but I still somehow get to talk to a few people inside football because of my teenage/early adult life.

He told me that the entire squad was buzzing during those last few weeks of NC's time, he told me the stuff they were producing in training was absolutely sensational and that there were times when they'd literally stop and clap one of the moves they'd just put together. He told me they were playing with a huge smile on their faces and that it was only a matter of time before it all clicked into place and in his words "There's going to be teams in this league that won't know what's hit them this season"

The management team were quietly confident. NC is never going to be the type to shout from the rooftops about he thinks things are going, it's probably one part of him I'd like to see change. I wish he had more of his dads brashness here.

What I've written above changes nothing. I'm sure quite a few of you will dismiss it just because it's coming from me and you'll think I'm posting out of loyalty to NC. The truth is I don't care anymore. I might still think it was a bad decision to let him go but I also can agree it was a good decision to bring in Mac, based purely on his results and style of play.

That's why I'm still just a touch disappointed. It was the money men who decided NC's time was up. Sam Rush may not even have been NC's biggest critic/internal enemy either. I believe that might have been Mel (but I'm not criticising him or stating that as fact) It was the money men who decided AND Sam Rush.

If I never trusted Sam's knowledge of football, how could I agree with the sacking? I personally will always believe that the "football men" could see we were close, a tweak or two away from really cracking it and I believe Sam Rush missed that, couldn't or didn't want to see it.

I wrote earlier in the week that the episode is over from my side. I'm not angry anymore. I'm very happy with where Nigel is a and with what he's achieving at Burton. They're a nice club to follow and I already did for ten years first time around. So I'm happy.

Derby have undoubtedly moved on, had a couple of successful seasons and been really unlucky not to have got promotion to the Premier league. I firmly believe and hope that with Rowett in charge of ALL THINGS FOOTBALL and with Mel's undoubted brilliant backing financially that you'll all get your wish and you'll go up next year playing brilliant stuff along the way.

I don't want to argue with anyone anymore about NC but I will always post explanations/opinions/rebuttals when I see him getting a bit of in-necessary stick.

One former player also told me Clough's training was basic and simplistic. I got the impression that training sessions were treated as more of a 'kick around' than actual coaching.

[Mikeyboy1963]

43 minutes ago, BOB BIGGS said:

I think we would have improved under NC if he had been given longer and more funds. Just thought I'd mention that to balance the opposite views. I don't know whether I'm right but neither do any of the haters. It's just convenient for them to sound as though they couldn't possibly be wrong.

For sure, he had shortcomings like all the others we've had since. He was sacked for not doing well enough in Sam's eyes. I'm not sure how much difference it makes as to whether we're 9/10th or 14th in the League. Sam said 14th after a dozen games or so wasn't good enough. If he was right, then what followed his decision isn't good enough either. I look where we are now compared to where were then and we're just a few places higher, despite the vast amounts of money wasted on average players. 

So, new start. New manager. No Sam. It all sounds good to me. If we manage top 6 next season, it will be some achievement. I hope GR gets the chance to put his mark on the Club.

 

Playing devils advocate was he sacked for not being good enough in Rush's eyes or for sticking to his beliefs and principals that the manager and his staff should choose the transfer targets and loan players coming in i.e. Zac Whitbread from Leicester City? 

Nigel clearly wasn't keen on Rush pulling the strings over transfers and to have players foisted on him. Rush maybe felt he was probably the better person to judge who was signed and added to the squad. It was a fundamental difference of opinion that had to result in one or the other leaving I guess. That was Cloughie. 

People need to judge how well the club has done since and what sort of quality, value and commitment has been obtained. I know what my own view is. 

[ramblur]

Having done a bit more research on the start of 13/14,we lost Jeff Hendrick for 12 weeks post Yeovil,and Johnny Russell missed a penalty at 0-2 v Burnley,with a quarter of the game left. 

[davenportram]

17 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

One former player also told me Clough's training was basic and simplistic. I got the impression that training sessions were treated as more of a 'kick around' than actual coaching.

Simple doesn't actually mean bad.  Coaching isn't about flashy drills etc.. it's about recognising what each player needs to do to improve at his job and providing opportunities for them to make the improvements.

its a bit like teaching, keeper nga things simple often helps progress to be made

[Bris Vegas]

I wasn't a fan of the football we played for the large part under NC. I wasn't impressed with his negative approach, especially in away games and towards the latter stages of matches.

However, in terms of recruitment, he and George Burley are the best two managers we've had this side of the millennium in that department. It took him a while and some mistakes along the way, but in general it's admirable not just the players which came considering their ability and price tag, but also their attitude.

Clough is by no means a poor manager. IMO he isn't exactly one you'd employ if you're looking for promotion, but if stability is the aim then there aren't that many better out there.

Burton definitely have the right man at the helm considering their ambition and target.

Recruitment since his departure has been shambolic to say the least, and if by large that has come as a result of Sam Rush's ties to this agency group whereby he benefits from those arrivals moreso than other potential alternative signings, then he fully deserves to be blasted out of Derby by Mel.

 

[europia]

11 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I wasn't a fan of the football we played for the large part under NC. I wasn't impressed with his negative approach, especially in away games and towards the latter stages of matches.

However, in terms of recruitment, he and George Burley are the best two managers we've had this side of the millennium in that department. It took him a while and some mistakes along the way, but in general it's admirable not just the players which came considering their ability and price tag, but also their attitude.

Clough is by no means a poor manager. IMO he isn't exactly one you'd employ if you're looking for promotion, but if stability is the aim then there aren't that many better out there.

Burton definitely have the right man at the helm considering their ambition and target.

Recruitment since his departure has been shambolic to say the least, and if by large that has come as a result of Sam Rush's ties to this agency group whereby he benefits from those arrivals moreso than other potential alternative signings, then he fully deserves to be blasted out of Derby by Mel.

 

Very good observations on Clough & Burley. George managed to create a silk purse from a sows ear... and that's no exaggeration! 

Strange that it's taken all this time for Mel to uncover the alleged serious offence committed by SR. 

Seems everyone who leaves derby county these days, departs amid controversial circumstances. Someone likes a bit of drama perhaps ? 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

I wasn't a fan of the football we played for the large part under NC. I wasn't impressed with his negative approach, especially in away games and towards the latter stages of matches.

However, in terms of recruitment, he and George Burley are the best two managers we've had this side of the millennium in that department. It took him a while and some mistakes along the way, but in general it's admirable not just the players which came considering their ability and price tag, but also their attitude.

Clough is by no means a poor manager. IMO he isn't exactly one you'd employ if you're looking for promotion, but if stability is the aim then there aren't that many better out there.

Burton definitely have the right man at the helm considering their ambition and target.

Recruitment since his departure has been shambolic to say the least, and if by large that has come as a result of Sam Rush's ties to this agency group whereby he benefits from those arrivals moreso than other potential alternative signings, then he fully deserves to be blasted out of Derby by Mel.

 

Clough had an eye for a player.

If we had more money to play with, it was widely known that Clough wanted to sign Gary Hooper, Billy sharpe, Ross McCormack (pre-Cardiff) and Chris Wood.

The only problem is he would have had them all sat behind the ball from the 60th minute trying to protect a 1-0 lead at home to Ssausagehorpe. 

[I Am Sheep]

4 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

I spoke to one of the players about this, in quite some depth. Next time I see him I'll ask if I can have his permission to name him. I think you all know that I've still got some ties. Not saying I'm ITK but I still somehow get to talk to a few people inside football because of my teenage/early adult life.

He told me that the entire squad was buzzing during those last few weeks of NC's time, he told me the stuff they were producing in training was absolutely sensational and that there were times when they'd literally stop and clap one of the moves they'd just put together. He told me they were playing with a huge smile on their faces and that it was only a matter of time before it all clicked into place and in his words "There's going to be teams in this league that won't know what's hit them this season"

Remember this? It was while NC was in charge, not SM

[Bris Vegas]

28 minutes ago, I Am Sheep said:

Remember this? It was while NC was in charge, not SM

Why did their CB completely abandon his position at 0:53. Woeful defending. Nice football though but it's a shame we could do this sort of stuff one week under NC then a week later get crushed 0-3 by Burnley.

[G STAR RAM]

10 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

I spoke to one of the players about this, in quite some depth. Next time I see him I'll ask if I can have his permission to name him. I think you all know that I've still got some ties. Not saying I'm ITK but I still somehow get to talk to a few people inside football because of my teenage/early adult life.

He told me that the entire squad was buzzing during those last few weeks of NC's time, he told me the stuff they were producing in training was absolutely sensational and that there were times when they'd literally stop and clap one of the moves they'd just put together. He told me they were playing with a huge smile on their faces and that it was only a matter of time before it all clicked into place and in his words "There's going to be teams in this league that won't know what's hit them this season"

The management team were quietly confident. NC is never going to be the type to shout from the rooftops about he thinks things are going, it's probably one part of him I'd like to see change. I wish he had more of his dads brashness here.

What I've written above changes nothing. I'm sure quite a few of you will dismiss it just because it's coming from me and you'll think I'm posting out of loyalty to NC. The truth is I don't care anymore. I might still think it was a bad decision to let him go but I also can agree it was a good decision to bring in Mac, based purely on his results and style of play.

That's why I'm still just a touch disappointed. It was the money men who decided NC's time was up. Sam Rush may not even have been NC's biggest critic/internal enemy either. I believe that might have been Mel (but I'm not criticising him or stating that as fact) It was the money men who decided AND Sam Rush.

If I never trusted Sam's knowledge of football, how could I agree with the sacking? I personally will always believe that the "football men" could see we were close, a tweak or two away from really cracking it and I believe Sam Rush missed that, couldn't or didn't want to see it.

I wrote earlier in the week that the episode is over from my side. I'm not angry anymore. I'm very happy with where Nigel is a and with what he's achieving at Burton. They're a nice club to follow and I already did for ten years first time around. So I'm happy.

Derby have undoubtedly moved on, had a couple of successful seasons and been really unlucky not to have got promotion to the Premier league. I firmly believe and hope that with Rowett in charge of ALL THINGS FOOTBALL and with Mel's undoubted brilliant backing financially that you'll all get your wish and you'll go up next year playing brilliant stuff along the way.

I don't want to argue with anyone anymore about NC but I will always post explanations/opinions/rebuttals when I see him getting a bit of in-necessary stick.

For me though this was the frustrating thing.

I think many of us realised that he had put together a decent squad capable of challenging.

I look back at the Yeovil goal and it's an 'I was there' moment for me. Probably out greatest team goal in my lifetime.

But unfortunately be it tactics or NCs default safety mode, something was holding back the players from performing like that on a regular basis and this was reflected in dwindling attendances.

The crowd want to be entertained. Look at what happened with Paul Clement and he had us in a much better position than NC did.

[Van der MoodHoover]

4 hours ago, I Am Sheep said:

Remember this? It was while NC was in charge, not SM

Or this.....

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=0ahUKEwiW7dqfwdrTAhUHIMAKHVV4DVEQwqsBCB4wAA&usg=AFQjCNF1sHlk2z9QIx28jtvfnGP_UlkifA&sig2=5yINUBZfUnTzykoNnP5Dcw

Not exactly sitting on a 1,2 or even 3 goal lead.

[archied]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

For me though this was the frustrating thing.

I think many of us realised that he had put together a decent squad capable of challenging.

I look back at the Yeovil goal and it's an 'I was there' moment for me. Probably out greatest team goal in my lifetime.

But unfortunately be it tactics or NCs default safety mode, something was holding back the players from performing like that on a regular basis and this was reflected in dwindling attendances.

The crowd want to be entertained. Look at what happened with Paul Clement and he had us in a much better position than NC did.

That's the difference between top players and players at lower level ,,consistency,,, that's why you need the balance of hard work and to be able to go a bit negative ,well organised and grind out results when you are not on song , you need grit and spirit and be able to dig in till you get on a run ,, momentum is massive in football ,,, if you look at clough he probably is a bit too cautious at times and Mac too much the other way ,, a mix of the two rather like revildevil s avatar would be spot on ,,, Mac is the better when momentum is with him but if you are struggling a bit and need to get organised ,grind some points out and turn things around the clough for me every time ,, look at big Sam ,,, he is very clough like when he goes into a struggling club , he organise s and wants pure work rate and grind out points , he want to first create a not losing easily mentality then builds on the momentum from there

[Pearl Ram]

9 hours ago, europia said:

 

Strange that it's taken all this time for Mel to uncover the alleged serious offence committed by SR. 

Seems everyone who leaves derby county these days, departs amid controversial circumstances. Someone likes a bit of drama perhaps ? 

Maybe Mel had complete faith in Rush and looked on him as his trusted right hand man until a third party, maybe someone with a grudge at Wasserman, maybe someone at the club, brought something to his attention.

I think this is too serious to be put down as another sacking by an attention seeker/drama queen and if it gets as far as a tribunal we may find out what it's all about.

Mel's got my support over this because I believe he has cast iron proof of wrongdoing by Rush, if it turns out otherwise, he will be an embarrassment to the club and I would question if he is fit and proper to hold the position he does.

[RoyMac5]

10 hours ago, europia said:

Very good observations on Clough & Burley. George managed to create a silk purse from a sows ear... and that's no exaggeration! 

 

Yes a good point - two different managers under similar circumstances, I know who I'd choose and it wouldn't be Son of!

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, EastHertsRam said:

Maybe Mel had complete faith in Rush and looked on him as his trusted right hand man until a third party, maybe someone with a grudge at Wasserman, maybe someone at the club, brought something to his attention.

I think this is too serious to be put down as another sacking by an attention seeker/drama queen and if it gets as far as a tribunal we may find out what it's all about.

Mel's got my support over this because I believe he has cast iron proof of wrongdoing by Rush, if it turns out otherwise, he will be an embarrassment to the club and I would question if he is fit and proper to hold the position he does.

Unless the rules have changed I think it is unlikely to go to a tribunal because wrongful dismissal claims/breach of contract  have a relatively low maximum award.

If Sam is sure of his ground then bigger win would be to sue for slander/libel on the gross misconduct accusations. 

[Pearl Ram]

Good point well made.