Sheffield Wednesday v Derby County

[Mr Tibbs]

16 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Nothing on rowett existing record suggests that he is that much better than Mac no, and that's why this is a risk. He knows this job will make or break him, he seems very tactically aware and I can certainly see why Mel has gone for him, but I'm sure rowett knows as well as anyone that if he doesn't get this rebuild right, he'll be out the window faster that Tyrone mears! Everything rides on the summer window, his career and our future, it could be amazing or it could fall apart. Let's hope it's the former!

So far I'd argue against that but willing to give our Gazza the time and patience to sort it. 

[Alph]

40 minutes ago, curtains said:

Lets just wait and see. 

You may be right you may be wrong. 

Wrong about what?

I'm not saying Rowett won't do well at Derby. Never said that. I asked a question

[Alph]

I don't think the Championship has done much evolving in 3 years.

I know Mac left us in a better position than he found us.

There's no successful formations or styles. It's about players fitting that formation and style. And ours just simply aren't a team. They weren't when Mac arrived this season and they aren't now.

There's no evidence that Rowett knows this league any better. He's used 433 himself! 

He may be a success. I've just seen so many times how the grass is always greener. Current players, managers and systems are useless and all our subs, other teams players, managers and systems are better.

People talk about 4231 like it's the best way to play. How many teams are out there now looking awful in that system

It's a team sheet graphic for viewers to make sense of. 

[Derby blood]

Who ever we got in as manager, it will take time to change things, and patience will be required by both Mel and the fans, I would deffo have gone for Mr Rowett, comes across very well and did a great job at Birmingham, on a very low budget, talks plenty of sense, but it will take time to get his players in and his ideas across, but I for one will be behind him 100 percent of the time. Rome was not built in a day and Mr Brian Clough is now not with us. So patience is a must, if we as a club are going to move forward.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

We've already seen so far we've been much more effective with our possession than under Mac,

Interested to know how you come to this conclusion?

Not saying you are wrong by the way, just wondering how you quantify it?

Under Mac 2, I believe our best results came when we had less possession.

[Coneheadjohn]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I wasn't there yesterday but I will be at Rotherham. 

Whilst Wednesday should have been on their game can you really read much into our performance? Even GR said the remainder of the season is like a slow death. 

Probably not,I'm came away happy enough just because I'd had a good day out.

Speaking to someone impartial whose opinion I trust made me a bit less happy(lord knows why).

Wednesday were no better than us.

Rotherhams always a good away day.

Can't make it this year unfortunately.

GR is right,only our slow painful death has been going on for some time.

[Coneheadjohn]

13 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Not being funny.....But shouldn't we really have held onto schteve rather than all change again...I mean, what's better?

The summer would have invigorated either manager but I'd have money on the Mac being the more fun to watch,which i kinds like spending my dosh on.

I think it was just down to the availabilty of GR at the time forcing Mels hand.

I reckon SM would have still been here had GR been available in the summer,thats why the change was sooner?

 

[Curtains]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Wrong about what?

I'm not saying Rowett won't do well at Derby. Never said that. I asked a question

It appears to me you are still very much a McClaren man correct me if I'm wrong and you like to put posts in that obviously support that view which also question Rowetts credentials against those of McClarens. 

I do accept you would like Rowett to succeed though as a Derby fan as you are like myself in that regard. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

It was never going to be about the instant improvement, it was about having the right man in charge this summer to rebuild. The rest of the season was dead rubber either way, but I wouldn't have trusted Mac to be the man to rebuild the team and I think Mel thought the same way.

No disrespect to him as a coach, his teams are good to watch however, as I've said before, his tactics aren't suited to the modern companionship anymore, and he isn't tactically aware enough to adapt them. Rowett is young, his ideas are fresh and whilst they may not be as good to watch, I believe they will be more effective. We've already seen so far we've been much more effective with our possession than under Mac, and I think that will only get better once a new team is in.

Simply put, we had a great coach in Mac who could get the best out of players, but even the best out of the current squad wouldn't be enough. We've now got a great manager, and it's that manager part that's key, he's a tactician, an analyst, and I think he knows exactly how to fix this mess

Not particularly convinced by a lot of that to be honest...mac went on a ten run winning streak after picking up and reorganising Pearson's shambles which is responsible for us being where we are,not in the relegation battle.

So essentially Mac did better with what he had than gr has done up to now.

I'd personally been more confident for next season with Mac at the helm and his summer buys than with gr who has a lot less experience.....

It's not to be though and i hope that it all comes good and wish gr well.

[Alph]

35 minutes ago, curtains said:

It appears to me you are still very much a McClaren man correct me if I'm wrong and you like to put posts in that obviously support that view which also question Rowetts credentials against those of McClarens. 

I do accept you would like Rowett to succeed though as a Derby fan as you are like myself in that regard. 

I'm nothing to do with McClaren. I'm not the one who keeps bringing him up. I don't know or care what he does next. I follow Derby.

What I will do is try to be fair. And I'll be fair when people start calling for Rowett's head too.

Which they will. 

My point here is that it was just said McClaren has lost touch with the Championship. That it's moved on and Rowett understands it.

Based on what? 

All I'm saying is don't make stuff up. Don't make out Rowett comes here with an unbelievable record of outstanding achievements. He took a struggling Brum and left them in the top 10.

Just what Mac did at Derby. 

He took Burton to the play offs. And they "bottled it" just as much as Derby. 

He might be the greatest manager we will ever have. I hope so. 

But don't rewrite history to suit an argument. 

 

[Sexydadbod]

Rowett's a much better manager than McClaren, I've got no doubt about that but McClaren's coaching skills is what helped the players upturn in form.  I never really thought we would have got promoted under McClaren but the football would be more attractive. Still, I thought it was very disrespectful the way we sacked McClaren.

[LazloW]

If Mac had stayed we'd pretty much be where we are now.  We are no better and no worse under GR.  I wouldn't expect us to be, to be honest.  

I think the most likely scenaio in all this, is that having worked with Mac again for few months Mel concluded that 'the magic' had gone and, perhaps, could not see a situation where we were going to have success in the long term.  He must've got wind that a young manager with a much heightened reputation following his sacking by Brum and the disaster that Zola was (GR really must thank Zola for helping to boost his reputation) was about to go to Norwich or elsehwere, and wanted to go down that route instead.  

I don't particularly think Mac got sacked because of the results he'd had in that poor run. I don't think GR was bought to suddenly make us better overnight. I don't think GR is necessarily a better manager than Mac (yet), but we aren't at the club everyday and we don't see what they see.  I think Mel just thought Mac was a bit of a busted flush and, on the balance of probability, we weren't going to get much better next year either.  He might have decided that Mac was stuck in 13/14 as well and he couldn't adapt. Who knows?

FWIW I don't think next season would be much different whoever is in charge. Clearly the sqaud needs freshening up and next season will ne one of rebuilding (again... but we've probably been closest to going up in such seasons so maybe not a bad thing). The key, however, is that I think Mel trusts GR more than he might have trusted Mac to get it right eventually.  Only time will tell... as always.

[1967Ram]

2 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Teams can soak up possession, it's all changed in the space of a few years. When he came in first time 433 was practically unknown in this league and teams had no idea how to beat it, but now tactics have changed, which has inadvertently negated 433 in this league. First time round it was perfect, exactly the right man for the job, but now more and more teams play counter attacking football in the league, not in response to the 433 might I add, however it does a job on it. Wouldn't be a problem if we adapted how we played it, but it didn't seem Mac knew what to do, and that's why he hasn't been trusted on the rebuild IMO.

Nothing on rowett existing record suggests that he is that much better than Mac no, and that's why this is a risk. He knows this job will make or break him, he seems very tactically aware and I can certainly see why Mel has gone for him, but I'm sure rowett knows as well as anyone that if he doesn't get this rebuild right, he'll be out the window faster that Tyrone mears! Everything rides on the summer window, his career and our future, it could be amazing or it could fall apart. Let's hope it's the former!

I just hope that Mel is patient enough Millenniumram

[toddy]

GR  will surely know now who is going out the door this summer.

After all if he doesn't offload the bulk of the squad and rebuild, he will be left trying to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

[1967Ram]

7 minutes ago, LazloW said:

If Mac had stayed we'd pretty much be where we are now.  We are no better and no worse under GR.  I wouldn't expect us to be, to be honest.  

I think the most likely scenaio in all this, is that having worked with Mac again for few months Mel concluded that 'the magic' had gone and, perhaps, could not see a situation where we were going to have success in the long term.  He must've got wind that a young manager with a much heightened reputation following his sacking by Brum and the disaster that Zola was (GR really must thank Zola for helping to boost his reputation) was about to go to Norwich or elsehwere, and wanted to go down that route instead.  

I don't particularly think Mac got sacked because of the results he'd had in that poor run. I don't think GR was bought to suddenly make us better overnight. I don't think GR is necessarily a better manager than Mac (yet), but we aren't at the club everyday and we don't see what they see.  I think Mel just thought Mac was a bit of a busted flush and, on the balance of probability, we weren't going to get much better next year either.  He might have decided that Mac was stuck in 13/14 as well and he couldn't adapt. Who knows?

FWIW I don't think next season would be much different whoever is in charge. Clearly the sqaud needs freshening up and next season will ne one of rebuilding (again... but we've probably been closest to going up in such seasons so maybe not a bad thing). The key, however, is that I think Mel trusts GR more than he might have trusted Mac to get it right eventually.  Only time will tell... as always.

Spot on. Really good post. 

[Curtains]

28 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I'm nothing to do with McClaren. I'm not the one who keeps bringing him up. I don't know or care what he does next. I follow Derby.

What I will do is try to be fair. And I'll be fair when people start calling for Rowett's head too.

Which they will. 

My point here is that it was just said McClaren has lost touch with the Championship. That it's moved on and Rowett understands it.

Based on what? 

All I'm saying is don't make stuff up. Don't make out Rowett comes here with an unbelievable record of outstanding achievements. He took a struggling Brum and left them in the top 10.

Just what Mac did at Derby. 

He took Burton to the play offs. And they "bottled it" just as much as Derby. 

He might be the greatest manager we will ever have. I hope so. 

But don't rewrite history to suit an argument. 

 

Who is rewriting history certainly not me. 

What I do know is Rowett is an up and coming young manager and if you take Burton and Birmingham as an example both teams with low budgets he has done very well. 

Burton really benefited from Rowetts time at Burton just ask Nigel Clough and Ben Robinson and the Burton fans.  

Birmingham are now in big danger of relegation having lost again today to Aston Villa so whose fault would that be because Rowett performed very well as manager for them on a low budget. 

I hope Rowett does well at Derby and and far as I am concerned good luck to McClaren but we move on. 

[Seth's left foot]

26 minutes ago, LazloW said:

If Mac had stayed we'd pretty much be where we are now.  We are no better and no worse under GR.  I wouldn't expect us to be, to be honest.  

I think the most likely scenaio in all this, is that having worked with Mac again for few months Mel concluded that 'the magic' had gone and, perhaps, could not see a situation where we were going to have success in the long term.  He must've got wind that a young manager with a much heightened reputation following his sacking by Brum and the disaster that Zola was (GR really must thank Zola for helping to boost his reputation) was about to go to Norwich or elsehwere, and wanted to go down that route instead.  

I don't particularly think Mac got sacked because of the results he'd had in that poor run. I don't think GR was bought to suddenly make us better overnight. I don't think GR is necessarily a better manager than Mac (yet), but we aren't at the club everyday and we don't see what they see.  I think Mel just thought Mac was a bit of a busted flush and, on the balance of probability, we weren't going to get much better next year either.  He might have decided that Mac was stuck in 13/14 as well and he couldn't adapt. Who knows?

FWIW I don't think next season would be much different whoever is in charge. Clearly the sqaud needs freshening up and next season will ne one of rebuilding (again... but we've probably been closest to going up in such seasons so maybe not a bad thing). The key, however, is that I think Mel trusts GR more than he might have trusted Mac to get it right eventually.  Only time will tell... as always.

Totally agree except that I see no reason why we can't go up next season.

Some decent signings, some luck with Thorne's future and no more drama will see us back up there. 

But as it's Derby that might be asking too much!

[Alph]

11 minutes ago, curtains said:

Who is rewriting history certainly not me. 

What I do know is Rowett is an up and coming young manager and if you take Burton and Birmingham as an example both teams with low budgets he has done very well. 

Burton really benefited from Rowetts time at Burton just ask Nigel Clough and Ben Robinson and the Burton fans.  

Birmingham are now in big danger of relegation having lost again today to Aston Villa so whose fault would that be because Rowett performed very well as manager for them on a low budget. 

I hope Rowett does well at Derby and and far as I am concerned good luck to McClaren but we move on. 

I'm not disputing that he's done well.

I'm disagreeing with some points made by Millenniumram. 

[Alph]

47 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Rowett's a much better manager than McClaren, I've got no doubt about that 

Based on?

[Sexydadbod]

56 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Based on?

A number of factors. Rowett actually understands tactics and how to counteract opposition tactics. Been following Rowett since his Burton days and he isn't afraid to change it up during the game unlike Mac. McClaren isn't the best of managers which is emphasised by the fact that he has failed more times than not in his managerial career.  He admitted that he enjoys coaching a lot more than the tactical side.