Mr Tibbs Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, McLovin said: A number of factors. Rowett actually understands tactics and how to counteract opposition tactics. Been following Rowett since his Burton days and he isn't afraid to change it up during the game unlike Mac. McClaren isn't the best of managers which is emphasised by the fact that he has failed more times than not in his managerial career. He admitted that he enjoys coaching a lot more than the tactical side. What do you class as failing? Being sacked? Not gaining promotion/winning silverware? If that's the case, 95% of managers have failed in their managerial careers. Has Rowett not failed more times than he's succeeded so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 hour ago, McLovin said: A number of factors. Rowett actually understands tactics and how to counteract opposition tactics. Been following Rowett since his Burton days and he isn't afraid to change it up during the game unlike Mac. McClaren isn't the best of managers which is emphasised by the fact that he has failed more times than not in his managerial career. He admitted that he enjoys coaching a lot more than the tactical side. You clearly weren't watching when MacClaren arrived first time when his use of subs was great after Clough's defensive mindset. It is possible to compliment Rowett without having to slag off MacClaren. Both of them have had success at several clubs but Maclaren has done it at a higher level and has actually won things - which Rowett hasn't done yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Mr Tibbs said: What do you class as failing? Being sacked? Not gaining promotion/winning silverware? If that's the case, 95% of managers have failed in their managerial careers. Has Rowett not failed more times than he's succeeded so far? McClaren has been sacked in his career lots more times than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 hour ago, McLovin said: A number of factors. Rowett actually understands tactics and how to counteract opposition tactics. Been following Rowett since his Burton days and he isn't afraid to change it up during the game unlike Mac. McClaren isn't the best of managers which is emphasised by the fact that he has failed more times than not in his managerial career. He admitted that he enjoys coaching a lot more than the tactical side. So Rowett is already a better manager than McClaren? Better than a former England managers, League Cup winner, Uefa cup finalists, Dutch League Champion who in 620 games has won 44% of them? Rowett with his 255 games and 42% win ratio and zero trophies has already proven a better manager? Already? Why has his tactical advantage not won more than 108 games in 255? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 McClaren failed at England, failed at Derby(second spell as manager), failed at Twente(second spell), failed at Wolfsburg, failed at Newcastle, failed at Forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alpha said: So Rowett is already a better manager than McClaren? Better than a former England managers, League Cup winner, Uefa cup finalists, Dutch League Champion who in 620 games has won 44% of them? Rowett with his 255 games and 42% win ratio and zero trophies has already proven a better manager? Already? Why has his tactical advantage not won more than 108 games in 255? Rowett is a better manager tactically than McClaren. McClaren always does well things are on the up but never turns around a poor scenario. Chris Powell this season was brought in to steady the ship before McClaren came in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 McClaren is a much better coach than he is a manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Alpha said: McClaren's tactics aren't suited to the modern Championship? We were midtable. Then we weren't We were down at the bottom and then we weren't. He left here the first time with over 50% win ratio. What exactly makes Rowett so much better? What is it in his record that's so amazing that Mac hasn't got? He's young and wears a nice jumper, which means he's a revolutionary. You know, just like Clement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Interested to know how you come to this conclusion? Not saying you are wrong by the way, just wondering how you quantify it? Under Mac 2, I believe our best results came when we had less possession. Think I might have confused you a little, your last sentence there is exactly my point. Early on under macs second spell we weren't having as much possession, but we were creating more chances, and winning more games. This was largely Down to our effectiveness with the ball, we weren't having possession for the sake of it, and every time we had the ball we were doing something with it. It's when mcclaren changed that, and wanted us to control games more, that we lost our form and was ultimately his demise IMO. We weren't using the ball very effectively, we weren't creating enough chances and we weren't scoring enough goals. Rowett IMO has already begun to reverse this, we've often given up possession and focused our attentions more on efficient, effective counter attacks. Have been busy today so haven't had the time to pull up exact statistics but I'm fairly confident we've had a lot more shots on target in rowetts first few games compared to mcclarens last dozen, and as such have scored more goals, all while having less possession. This changed in style IMO will be key, might not be as pretty, but it's more effective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, McLovin said: McClaren has been sacked in his career lots more times than not. Aren't most managers? I don't see margins in football as clear as that, so black and white. You're not a failure just because you've been sacked, all managers bar the elite are sacked. Quite regularly in their careers too. Roberto Di Matteo was sacked by Chelsea, yet won the Champs League! He wasn't a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, McLovin said: Rowett is a better manager tactically than McClaren. McClaren always does well things are on the up but never turns around a poor scenario. Chris Powell this season was brought in to steady the ship before McClaren came in Right, and McClaren has won a Dutch League title for a clubs first time. He's Boro's most successful manager ever I think? He's managed England and in Germany. He lead Derby from 6 years of never winning more than they lost to a record breaking season. So if Rowett is already better than that I would expect one hell of a season next season. McClaren jumped us up half the league twice. And if Rowett is better than a bloke who's done all this then why is his record not better? At Burton he was in charge for their two worst defeats in the football League. Take into account that Nigel has had them playing in the Championship this season. He also lost 2 play off games. His record is W65 L45 at Burton At Birmingham it's W42 L32 As with Pearson, I'm not against him managing Derby. In fact unlike Pearson I think Rowett seems like a top bloke. I'm happy to let him learn and develop here and rebuild this team. But just as with Pearson I can't watch someone say something that's totally unfair. He's not a better manager than McClaren yet. He's proven only that he's worthy of an opportunity to be at a club that's offering better resources so he can flex his muscles a bit. His career is just underway and he's got a lot to prove. Including that he's better than McClaren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said: Aren't most managers? I don't see margins in football as clear as that, so black and white. You're not a failure just because you've been sacked, all managers bar the elite are sacked. Quite regularly in their careers too. Roberto Di Matteo was sacked by Chelsea, yet won the Champs League! He wasn't a failure. I understand that which is why I didn't include his sacking at Derby on the first occasion but those other jobs I listed he didn't have any good spells, whereas Di matteo did. Btw if McClaren is such a good manager then why did Cardiff and Rotherham reject him when he sent an application in for their jobs? Surely they would accept such a great manager with open arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Alpha said: Right, and McClaren has won a Dutch League title for a clubs first time. He's Boro's most successful manager ever I think? He's managed England and in Germany. He lead Derby from 6 years of never winning more than they lost to a record breaking season. So if Rowett is already better than that I would expect one hell of a season next season. McClaren jumped us up half the league twice. And if Rowett is better than a bloke who's done all this then why is his record not better? At Burton he was in charge for their two worst defeats in the football League. Take into account that Nigel has had them playing in the Championship this season. He also lost 2 play off games. His record is W65 L45 at Burton At Birmingham it's W42 L32 As with Pearson, I'm not against him managing Derby. In fact unlike Pearson I think Rowett seems like a top bloke. I'm happy to let him learn and develop here and rebuild this team. But just as with Pearson I can't watch someone say something that's totally unfair. He's not a better manager than McClaren yet. He's proven only that he's worthy of an opportunity to be at a club that's offering better resources so he can flex his muscles a bit. His career is just underway and he's got a lot to prove. Including that he's better than McClaren. Yes he managed England and in Germany and failed at both. McClaren somehow completely ruin Germany's best team at the time and the German press completely laughed at him. Oh at the club he won the title at(Twente) couldn't wait to get rid of him in his second spell and that's completely ignoring the shambles at forest and Newcastle. Just to note:I was completely against McClaren's sacking here because I still think he had an idea of how he wanted the team to play and the proper time to judge him would have been next January transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, McLovin said: Yes he managed England and in Germany and failed at both. McClaren somehow completely ruin Germany's best team at the time and the German press completely laughed at him. Oh at the club he won the title at(Twente) couldn't wait to get rid of him in his second spell and that's completely ignoring the shambles at forest and Newcastle. Just to note:I was completely against McClaren's sacking here because I still think he had an idea of how he wanted the team to play and the proper time to judge him would have been next January transfer window. Germany's best team at the time? They finished 8th with a +6 goal difference before he arrived. The club that couldn't wait to get rid dropped from 2nd to 6th. This is the club who won what is still their only major trophy and are currently 6th? How does any of this show Rowett is better. How has he not classed as a failure at Burton and Brum but Mac is in his second spell here? Without checking I'm pretty sure Mac has a higher win percentage in this last Derby spell than Rowett has at any club. You can talk about Mac failing all you like. I'm interested in your statement that Rowett is a better manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Different clubs have different targets. Rowett's never been sacked whereas McClaren has been sacked from nearly every job. Different clubs have different objectives. Look at Birmingham now without Rowett. McClaren never turns a good thing around. McClaren applied for the Cardiff and Rotherham jobs but was rejected by both. I'm fairly sure neither would have rejected Rowett. McClaren negates the tactical side which is why his teams often go long spells without winning, just like Alan Pardew. McClaren is a fantastic coach which is why he continues to get jobs- to get the most out of the players but a good manager? Nah I'm not having that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcanboy Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Rowett's never been sacked.................erm, Birmingham? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 hour ago, McLovin said: I understand that which is why I didn't include his sacking at Derby on the first occasion but those other jobs I listed he didn't have any good spells, whereas Di matteo did. Btw if McClaren is such a good manager then why did Cardiff and Rotherham reject him when he sent an application in for their jobs? Surely they would accept such a great manager with open arms? You didn't list his good spells though which is unfair. His second spell here wasn't failure surely, bottom three on arrival. What do you think his targets were when taking the reigns? Promotion? I'm not saying he's a great manager, I don't think anybody is. I just picked a bone with your post as you labelled him a "failure" purely because he's been sacked a few times when the reality is, all managers are the same bar your Fergie's etc. Do you know for a fact they "rejected" his applications? Why did we "reject" GR's previous applications? Better men for the job, it's got to be a right fit at the right time. (Something we've failed dramatically with). Macca will never be judged on apparent failed applications at teams like Rotherham and Cardiff. He's got plenty of previous pedigree in which we can debate over to argue if he's a good manager or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 42 minutes ago, McLovin said: Different clubs have different targets. Rowett's never been sacked Your post was going so well up until this point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 At least we all learned one useful lesson yesterday,that swapping Hughesy for Tom Ince and expecting Ince to play a central midfield/holding/ball winner role is not the way forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Your post was going so well up until this point! He was "sacked" for not being a big enough name. Look at Birmingham now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.