RadioactiveWaste Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 18 minutes ago, Sparkle said: Ideal world sort of stuff, a confident Russell with an effective midfield Fair enough, I would take an in form Russell over Anya as well. Just they all go in and out of form on a match by match basis it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Papahet said: Bryson, Keogh and Russell People will be sticking them in team selections in twenty years from now i'm certain of it. Then they'll wonder why we are still a Championship club. A side full of bang average players who can't maintain consistency is ya' answer my friends. Fans are renown for overrating their own players, but bleedin hell; Keogh, Bryson, Russell, Martin, Thorne? Latter is a total complete crock, the others are on form till January and when the going gets tough they struggle. People forget the Hull play off game too easily, the collapse at Rotherham. No mental fight in them to get out this division. My opinion ofcourse, but we won't go up with this crop of players. Hull play off where Redknapp has come out after and said he told Wassall to go more direct instead of playing the high intensity game we had been playing? And Rotherham collapse where Wassall took Martin and Thorne for Bent and Blackman, and changed formation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Papahet said: Fans are renown for overrating their own players, but bleedin hell; Keogh, Bryson, Russell, Martin, Thorne? Latter is a total complete crock, the others are on form till January and when the going gets tough they struggle. People forget the Hull play off game too easily, the collapse at Rotherham. No mental fight in them to get out this division. My opinion ofcourse, but we won't go up with this crop of players. A few of us remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Looking at central defenders first Derby have always prospered when we've had good ball playing cbs. In my lifetime the epitome of this was Todd and Macfarland. Both of these were so good they also did it for England. In more recent times weve been blessed with igor and others such as carbonari and mcgrath. Keogh and Buxton are not in the same class but are from a familiar mould. We want upgrades on those and for me, neither pearce nor shackell represent that. They are both of a different style. Keogh is of course not irreplaceable. Bur I can't yet think of his successor and haven't seen any suggestions that I can relate to. Flint I think is more from the shackell mould. We haven't replaced bucko yet imo. Meanwhile I do think we should recognise and appreciate the great service he has given to Derby County, sometimes under huge criticism. For me, his personal credentials are of the highest order. Finally, on the captaincy and organisation there is a case for improvement and if we have a more visible leader who can represent the manager on the pitch then a change should be at least considered. Equally important however is to ensure Keogh is handled respectfully if change is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Do not think McClaren will make a big overhaul at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 1 hour ago, rynny said: Hull play off where Redknapp has come out after and said he told Wassall to go more direct instead of playing the high intensity game we had been playing? And Rotherham collapse where Wassall took Martin and Thorne for Bent and Blackman, and changed formation? Yup those games. Normally when you concede three goals in a game you'd look at the defenders. What about the Bristol, Norwich and Cardiff games then? What about another three against Leicester reserves? All with Keogh at the back I'll add. Thats 13 conceded in those 4 games alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Papahet said: Yup those games. Normally when you concede three goals in a game you'd look at the defenders. What about the Bristol, Norwich and Cardiff games then? What about another three against Leicester reserves? All with Keogh at the back I'll add. Thats 12 conceded in those 4 games alone. All Darren Bents fault lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superzak Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 They are all lucky they have the best keeper in the championship behind them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, ostrichram said: They are all lucky they have the best keeper in the championship behind them Don't tell the Keogh-haters that he was also a common factor in our collapses. They can't handle multiple scapegoats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 32 minutes ago, Papahet said: Yup those games. Normally when you concede three goals in a game you'd look at the defenders. What about the Bristol, Norwich and Cardiff games then? What about another three against Leicester reserves? All with Keogh at the back I'll add. Thats 13 conceded in those 4 games alone. I think most people would accept that the Hull first leg was the way we played rather than who we played. And the Rotherham game was the strange substitutions borne, I think, out of Wassall's managerial naivety at the time. But then @rynny has already explained that. Your argument seems to be that no matter how many wins and clean sheets that Keogh has been on the pitch for that he is not good enough because we have not kept a clean sheet in EVERY game. If that's what you think I feel you would be better supporting Celtic or a team where there is no regular opposition. I think our defence is pretty good given that we play in one of the most competitive leagues in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 11 minutes ago, angieram said: I think most people would accept that the Hull first leg was the way we played rather than who we played. And the Rotherham game was the strange substitutions borne, I think, out of Wassall's managerial naivety at the time. But then @rynny has already explained that. Your argument seems to be that no matter how many wins and clean sheets that Keogh has been on the pitch for that he is not good enough because we have not kept a clean sheet in EVERY game. If that's what you think I feel you would be better supporting Celtic or a team where there is no regular opposition. I think our defence is pretty good given that we play in one of the most competitive leagues in the world. "Pretty good" and yet concedes three against the likes of Bristol, four against Cardiff, three at Norwich and another three against a poor Leicester side. We've stuck by Keogh since 2012 and still a Championship club. Think it's time to either give Shackell and Pearce a go together or sign someone of better quality- surely can't be that difficult. Thats my opinion, why do I need stats and statistics? "Wassall did this" "Redknapp said that". So? IMO Keogh isn't that great and I'll stand by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 17 hours ago, Papahet said: And we've been great lately with him IN the side haven't we? 3 at Leicester, 3 against Bristol, 4 against Cardiff... Who was playing defence in each of those games? How many of these ten goals do you put on Keogh? One I'd say in the 110th plus minute when the mentality was chasing the game against Premier league opposition. Pearce at least 2 (City first and Cardiff 4th), 2 on Olsson (Leicester first, City third). So when was Keoghs last mistake leading to a league goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Anyone stating Keogh should be dropped and isn't good enough I seriously question their ability to judge football. If he is our problem, wow, you are overlooking so many other things in this team. Lets ignore the following: - mistakes by his centre back partner - Mistakes by his full back, in particular on the left - lack of defensive support coming from in front of him especially in the holding role But no, let's play Pearce and Shackell and let's see the ball being passed between those two defenders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 27 minutes ago, Papahet said: "Pretty good" and yet concedes three against the likes of Bristol, four against Cardiff, three at Norwich and another three against a poor Leicester side. We've stuck by Keogh since 2012 and still a Championship club. Think it's time to either give Shackell and Pearce a go together or sign someone of better quality- surely can't be that difficult. Thats my opinion, why do I need stats and statistics? "Wassall did this" "Redknapp said that". So? IMO Keogh isn't that great and I'll stand by that. Of course you are entitled to your opinion - we all are but then you ask why do you need statistics? One good reason is because they tend to knock your argument into a cocked hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Only statistic that's matters to me is what league we are in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Just now, Papahet said: "Pretty good" and yet concedes three against the likes of Bristol, four against Cardiff, three at Norwich and another three against a poor Leicester side. We've stuck by Keogh since 2012 and still a Championship club. Think it's time to either give Shackell and Pearce a go together or sign someone of better quality- surely can't be that difficult. Thats my opinion, why do I need stats and statistics? "Wassall did this" "Redknapp said that". So? IMO Keogh isn't that great and I'll stand by that. In my view, shackell and pearce are too slow and with too poor distribution to play as a pair. Signing an upgrade is a summer job obviously, but I would expect us to always be looking for upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIWY Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 38 minutes ago, Papahet said: "Pretty good" and yet concedes three against the likes of Bristol, four against Cardiff, three at Norwich and another three against a poor Leicester side. We've stuck by Keogh since 2012 and still a Championship club. Think it's time to either give Shackell and Pearce a go together or sign someone of better quality- surely can't be that difficult. Thats my opinion, why do I need stats and statistics? "Wassall did this" "Redknapp said that". So? IMO Keogh isn't that great and I'll stand by that. Some games the midfield can be partly responsible for conceding goals, or even the attack for failing to hold the ball up sufficiently further up the pitch, so it's not as simple as just blaming the defence for goals. The way I see it, goals are conceded collectively by the whole team and not just individually by Keogh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Original post suggested Grant Leadbitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, Papahet said: Only statistic that's matters to me is what league we are in Haha! So conceding 13 goals in 4 games isn't a statistic then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Haha! So conceding 13 goals in 4 games isn't a statistic then? Clearly not. Nobody has yet to bring that one up, just some rubbish about what Redknapp supposedly said to Wassall for the Hull game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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