Sparkle Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 What is our best midfield? I used to think I knew but constant changes seem to leave me wondering. personally I think we miss Hendrick massively and I do know people say he was inconsistent but who is consistently good in our midfield because Hughes butterfield Johnson Bryson and de sart certinatly aren't we need that 7/10 midfielder for next season who performs every week, oh and he needs to be able to tackle properly head properly pass properly and score, who is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashz09 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I'm not sure either but I think we should try 4-4-2 soon. As the defensive midfield role obviously isn't working or having much relevance. The problem is then who do you put up front. As Bent and Nugent will struggle to put a real shift in for 90 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I don't think 442 will work with our players. 4231 might be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Invite Roy Mac and Colin Todd to become midfield coaches. Will et al would soon realise their full potential. Football may have 'moved on' but there is always a place for good, honest consistency and dependability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 De Saart Johnson and Hughes. De Saart is lucky I am including him but Johnson is better further up and has that muscle we lack. That's with 3 in midfield. I actually think Johnson is key in any midfield/formation we have because the others are so lightweight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 The holding midfield role has become our biggest downfall since Eustace left. Can't keep relying on Thorne to come back and play I'm afraid he won't, if he does it won't be for any length of time. We either need to go out in the summer and recruit the right man for this role , whoever this may be . Or scrap the 4 3 3 and concentrate further on the 4 2 3 1 which I feel personally this is the route to go. This system allows a lot more flexibility in the system and will rely less heavily on certain roles and styles of players. Would still offer enough defensive cover yet not compromising on our attacking game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 The issue is we keep relaying on this notion that we have the players that can only player 4-3-3 with a holding midfielder backing up the midfield. It is not working and has not done for 4 seasons now! We should be able to change formations and systems to suit each game - we can't! We really need to start from scratch in the summer, we need a complete clear out of a number of 1st team squad players-if we want to compete at promotion next season. The current midfield is not good enough and the defence...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, toddy said: The issue is we keep relaying on this notion that we have the players that can only player 4-3-3 with a holding midfielder backing up the midfield. It is not working and has not done for 4 seasons now! We should be able to change formations and systems to suit each game - we can't! We really need to start from scratch in the summer, we need a complete clear out of a number of 1st team squad players-if we want to compete at promotion next season. The current midfield is not good enough and the defence...... No, no we don't. Picking any 3 of Bryson, Johnson, Butterfield, Hughes, and Thorne in this division would be a dream for most clubs. It was never going to happen this season after the start we made. So why don't we support the lads and see how we finish? Heaven knows some actual support, instead of threatening to sell them all, might help. Who would you get in? Cause I believe Villa brought most of our "targets", they're storming the league aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 hour ago, mrdave85 said: No, no we don't. Picking any 3 of Bryson, Johnson, Butterfield, Hughes, and Thorne in this division would be a dream for most clubs. It was never going to happen this season after the start we made. So why don't we support the lads and see how we finish? Heaven knows some actual support, instead of threatening to sell them all, might help. Who would you get in? Cause I believe Villa brought most of our "targets", they're storming the league aren't they? We have gained 12 pts from the last 30, the start although poor has little bearing on the recent results and performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, toddy said: We have gained 12 pts from the last 30, the start although poor has little bearing on the recent results and performances. And Villa have amassed 8pts, a lot of posters wanted their midfield. The start has a bearing to the season overall, which ultimately leads to our final league position. You pointing out recent form has nothing to do with my comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Simsy said: De Saart Johnson and Hughes. De Saart is lucky I am including him but Johnson is better further up and has that muscle we lack. That's with 3 in midfield. I actually think Johnson is key in any midfield/formation we have because the others are so lightweight. I agree. Johnson is untidy at times but he is a muscular disruptor and will win a ball higher up the pitch. I also think De Saart is a good footballer. He lacks a bit of strength but he has the right idea and can play a pass. When Johnson first came he was excellent for his first half dozen games in the more advanced role. But with these players we never know what we are going to get one match to the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgford Ram Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I still say with a fit George Thorne that 4-2-3-1 is the way to go. Maybe De Sart can play that role. I think this formation would help protect the defence, let Will play in an area that he can hurt the opposition and keep some of the weaker midfield performers out of the team; ---------- De Sart - Johnson ---------- Ince ----------Hughes--------- AN other (prob Anya) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Ashz09 said: I'm not sure either but I think we should try 4-4-2 soon. As the defensive midfield role obviously isn't working or having much relevance. The problem is then who do you put up front. As Bent and Nugent will struggle to put a real shift in for 90 minutes. Are you Nigel Pearson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Still is Thorne, Hughes, Bryson. Whereas in 14/15 we had Hendrick to come in for the Bryson role, and Eustace to play the Thorne role we now have: De Sart doing the Thorne role without the physical presence of Eustace or Thorne but with some of the latters ball playing ability, or Johnson who has the physical presence but not the disipline like Eustace had or the ball playing ability that Thorne has. Butterfield is most like Hughes in how he plays but is nowhere near as good. He's better at shooting but doesn't like to track back. Real luxury player. Bryson is still Bryson but two years older and not having the season of his life. If he doesn't play we then have to have Butterfield or Johnson who offer nowhere near as much energy and running from deep. In short it's a cobbled together midfield cobbled together by 4 managers and exacerbated by injuries both long and short term. Need to either stick with 4-3-3 and find back up players to Thorne and Hughes (good luck) or change the system. 4-3-3 with the midfield I mentioned at the top is our best midfield, but over 46 games I think it's doomed to cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Someone (Mac!) needs to sit down with DeSaart and explain that he should be within 10 yards of the deepest centre-half at all times - he's obviously got ability, but his positional discipline is killing us..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 4-2-3-1 De Sart Johnson Hughes De Sart and Johnson to cover for each other's weaknesses. Hughes at number 10 to provide the link up element that Bent fails to bring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 From Mac coming in and beating Leeds 1-0 at home, it was: Johnson Butterfield Hughes And that carried for near enough the entire unbeaten run, with the exception of the win against the Wendies where Hughes was absent (suspended, iirc) and Fulham away where he was on the bench. We haven't had a settled team, let alone midfield, since, and Norwich away was where the injuries and suspensions started to take their respective tolls. 3 first team left backs out, Hughes out, Butterfield got a straight red. Since that, we've been chasing our own tails. Just when we get some bodies back in, we lose a few. Last night, Hughes, Bryson and Johnson were all 'carrying knocks'. Only Bryson got the rest, Johnson was on the bench and Hughes played 60 mins, and looked for all the world like he shouldn't be out there. De Sart has looked handy, but seems to be a Omar Mascarell play-a-like. I daren't guess what we might see against Burton, as whether forced or not, we can't stop tinkering. But I hope we can get back to Johnson, Butterfield and Hughes - because our best spell came with that set up. Each of them knew their place, knew their role and knew what the other was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I'm not sure what our best midfield is, but the midfield is definitely the problem. Everyone loves to carp on about how big our squad is and how we should be doing better, but the reality is we only have three CMs at the club - 4 if you count BJ - and whatever combination we seem to play, we can't seem to put out two together who both look fit. There's no balance in midfield either. Bryson is an attacking runner of a CM, Hughes is the one who makes things tick, Butterfield keeps the ball. It's all very lightweight. Our options at CDM are BJ who has to have players close to him because he can't pass or De Sart who, although clearly very talented, is clearly Mascarell 2.0 and isn't suited to protecting the back 5 in this league. It's no surprise to me that we keep getting turned over in midfield and let the opposition run at our back 5. It's not the defence's fault they're so exposed. So long as we don't play a side that are looking to dominate us physically, we're okay. We've got decent footballers at the club. But anything beyond that, and we seriously struggle. We're forgiving of our midfield and the 4-3-3 formation because it was so spectacular in 13/14 and large spells of 14/15. The difference was, that our midfield 3 at that time had balance: CDM: Thorne/Eustace CM: a younger Bryson/Hughes/Hendrick. Several million pounds later, and we still can't put out a midfield as good as that, even when everybody's fit. To be fair, I think our problems are compounded by starting pre-season late under Pearson and setting our stall out as a 4-4-2 side who kept tight. I just don't think the base fitness is there and having a mini Cup run will affect us more than other clubs. It's exposed our weaknesses though and we seriously need to address those if we're going to do anything next season. However, I just have a feeling that our response this summer will be to sign another lightweight European CDM on loan and then blow loads of money on a random winger who can't play on his preferred right-hand side because of Ince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 A lot of people mention Thorne. Is there really any point? He's as much a Villa player as he is a Derby one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Just now, TroyDyer said: A lot of people mention Thorne. Is there really any point? He's as much a Villa player as he is a Derby one. The position still exists, and that's the kind of player we need to have to play 4-3-3 effectively with the lightweight midfielders in front of the CDM. So in that sense, he's still very relevant. Same could be said for the need of a Martin-type played at CF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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