MrsRam Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 too many ding dongs on here to know who's said what..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11696/10746883/chris-martin-signs-new-derby-county-deal-while-on-loan-at-fulham Fulham want their cake and eat it don't they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, Steve How Hard!!! said: Some fair points there but the comparison to how Vdrya's performed doesn't really stack up. Vydra hasn't performed because he's largely been used either out of position or in cameo roles. We ain't gonna bring CM back and play him on the wing or bring him on for the last 10 minutes. We're gonna play to his strengths and utilise his link up play. I know Martin will be the main man on his return. I know we will play to his strengths and he'll be the focal point of the side. After all, I didn't say 'What if he is utilised like Vydra...?', I said what if he performs like Vydra, who has suffered under the weight of expectation and the pressure to match his record from seasons past. Could this not happen with Martin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said: Still can't understand the euphoria surrounding him coming back. A bloke who didnt score in 23 games for us before he left. Whos attitude and demeanour on the pitch was awful and that of a player that didn't want to be here. A player who is approaching 30 and whos best days are probably behind him and we've seen already. No other club is this reliant on a player. Its really strange. There could be better players out there in the lower leagues. But we'll never know. Look at Burnley. Had Austin. Replaced with Ings. Lost Ings replaced with Gray. Each time each striker has improved them. Giving him a 3 year deal is strange. We lost Martin and replaced him witrh Vydra. probably one of the worst deadline day deals in 2nd tier history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, reveldevil said: All of it, there's no reason for any quotes from Martin anywhere in the announcement. In fact, until the window shuts there's no need for a deal to be announced at all. Maybe not. But any player who signs a new contract with us always has a little interview. I think you can over analyse this situation and all actions. I don't think it was at all unacceptable for McClaren to say he wants Martin nor Martin to say Derby is his home. Regardless of exact loan details (of which only Derby, Fulham and Martin know, we talk poppycock) Martin is still our player. If Fulham were certain they wanted him and Martin certain he wanted to be there then don't do a loan! I get why it can be seen as underhand and maybe it is part of a cunning plan. Just a situation none of the parties should have ended up in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Jourdan said: I know Martin will be the main man on his return. I know we will play to his strengths and he'll be the focal point of the side. After all, I didn't say 'What if he is utilised like Vydra...?', I said what if he performs like Vydra, who has suffered under the weight of expectation and the pressure to match his record from seasons past. Could this not happen with Martin? That's my point. Vydra hasn't performed because we haven't played to his strengths. It's not all because of pressure and expectations. Martin has proved he can perform under pressure and expectation. He was our top scorer for 3 consecutive seasons don't forget. However there is no guarantee as with any player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKWORTHRAM Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, CumbrianRam said: We lost Martin and replaced him witrh Vydra. probably one of the worst deadline day deals in 2nd tier history Vydra was bought in under a different manager for a different system. If given a chance he'll come good. But getting 5 minutes on the wing every week isn't going to give him a chance or help his confidence improve. Was hoping McClaren could coach him and utilise him. But we'll go and get Martin and stick with 433 till the end of time. We must be the only club in the football league that can only play one system? Like. There are teams that adapt and change formation depending on opposition. Sometimes to match their opponents. Sometimes to outdo them. We don't have that option. Its 433 and thats it. Sometimes it really doesn't work but we don't or cannot change. Leeds away was a prime example. We got pulverised in midfield. Completely outrun. After 10 minutes I said "be good if we could try a different system to see if it helps" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKWORTHRAM Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Steve How Hard!!! said: That's my point. Vydra hasn't performed because we haven't played to his strengths. It's not all because of pressure and expectations. Martin has proved he can perform under pressure and expectation. He was our top scorer for 3 consecutive seasons don't forget. However there is no guarantee as with any player. What was Martins excuse for his previous 23 games with us where he scored 0 goals? Vydra gets hammered on here when he comes on, out of position, for 5-10 minutes. "I know your a striker Matej. But we dont understand the concept of playing 2 up front, even if we are 1 down, so you will have to go out on the wing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said: Vydra was bought in under a different manager for a different system. If given a chance he'll come good. But getting 5 minutes on the wing every week isn't going to give him a chance or help his confidence improve. Was hoping McClaren could coach him and utilise him. But we'll go and get Martin and stick with 433 till the end of time. We must be the only club in the football league that can only play one system? Like. There are teams that adapt and change formation depending on opposition. Sometimes to match their opponents. Sometimes to outdo them. We don't have that option. Its 433 and thats it. Sometimes it really doesn't work but we don't or cannot change. Leeds away was a prime example. We got pulverised in midfield. Completely outrun. After 10 minutes I said "be good if we could try a different system to see if it helps" Don't forget that vydra has started half of our games this season,not just five minutes here and there...That's happened since Mac came back and he wasn't sufficiently impressed with him to continue starting him...He has probably been trying to train him to play different but it hasn't worked to date. The same happened with Clement trying to play Martin in a way that didn't suit his style...The only difference is that Martin continued to hold up the ball and distribute it to others and actively assisted in them scoring goals....Vydra has done nothing of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram a lamb a ding dong Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 4-3-3 only???? 4-1-2-3 4-1-2-2-1 Thats 2 other options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, MACKWORTHRAM said: What was Martins excuse for his previous 23 games with us where he scored 0 goals? Vydra gets hammered on here when he comes on, out of position, for 5-10 minutes. "I know your a striker Matej. But we dont understand the concept of playing 2 up front, even if we are 1 down, so you will have to go out on the wing" I ain't knocking Vydra. I'm sticking up for him. Hopefully Mac has a system in mind that utilises both Martin and Vydra. Who knows only time will tell. As for Martin's baron spell, I don't recall it being that long but he's certainly back amongst the goals now at team he doesn't want to play for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 not sure if anyone has mentioned this in all these pages but i do think that the signing of Martin back does prove that we are planning for another season in the second division. If Mac thought we had plans to be playing in the first division next season then he wouldn't have signed him. Having said that.....I am delighted we have him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram a lamb a ding dong Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 One thing we do lack with CM in the side is the slow closing down of defenders. Benty puts the defence under immediate pressure. I think the lack of CM has turned him in to a world beater. Good he'll be back but should we have looked at other options???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 10 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said: What was Martins excuse for his previous 23 games with us where he scored 0 goals? Vydra gets hammered on here when he comes on, out of position, for 5-10 minutes. "I know your a striker Matej. But we dont understand the concept of playing 2 up front, even if we are 1 down, so you will have to go out on the wing" Martin's longest goal drought for us is 14 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, rynny said: Martin's longest goal drought for us is 14 games. Thought the 23 games was an exaggeration. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Do you still call a Snickers a Marathon? @MuespachRam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 13 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said: What was Martins excuse for his previous 23 games with us where he scored 0 goals? Vydra gets hammered on here when he comes on, out of position, for 5-10 minutes. "I know your a striker Matej. But we dont understand the concept of playing 2 up front, even if we are 1 down, so you will have to go out on the wing" To be fair to Martin (and ignoring your over-exaggerations). In the same way that Vydra is not suited to playing out wide, Martin is not suited to having balls lumped forward into the corners for him to chase in the ugly style that Pearson had us playing (and neither is Vydra). I suspect that Vydra could play with Martin as a two up front, he would certainly get chances off Martin so long as the ball is played to CM somewhere between his nipples and tootsies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 18 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said: What was Martins excuse for his previous 23 games with us where he scored 0 goals? Vydra gets hammered on here when he comes on, out of position, for 5-10 minutes. "I know your a striker Matej. But we dont understand the concept of playing 2 up front, even if we are 1 down, so you will have to go out on the wing" Games where Vydra has played 45 mins or more this season: Derby 0 - 2 Newcastle L Derby 0 - 1 Ipswich L Bristol City 1 - 1 Derby D Derby 1 - 2 Blackburn L Cardiff 0 - 2 Derby W Reading 1 - 1 Derby D Derby 1 - 0 Leeds W Derby 0 - 0 Brentford D Huddersfield 1 - 0 Derby L Wigan 0 - 1 Derby W Fulham 2 - 2 Derby D Norwich 3 - 0 Derby L Leeds 1 - 0 Derby L With him playing more than 45mins in the game: 3 wins, 4 draws, 6 losses Without him playing less than 45mins in the game: 8 wins, 3 draws, 2 losses Vydra has had chances to stake a claim up front on his own under McClaren, but he obviusly feels that he's got a better option with Martin. As for the formation thing, you play the formation that gets the mst out of your players. The formation that gets the most out of ours is 433. You don't change your entire system to fit in one player. Vydra will have to learn to adapt, like Russell has (seeing as how we all forget Russell also played as 1 of 2 up front when he first came to us), like Bent has (he's done remarkably well too for someone who has spent a career as part of a two up front). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 13 minutes ago, rynny said: Martin's longest goal drought for us is 14 games. Are you sure? Is that 14 with a pen to break the duck? I can certainly remember him going on 2 massive draughts. It might be no goals from open play for 23 matches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, Simsy said: Are you sure? Is that 14 with a pen to break the duck? I can certainly remember him going on 2 massive draughts. It might be no goals from open play for 23 matches... From open play it is 18 (not sure why how he scores matters) which is a different run to the 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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